851/888 racebike basketcase

nine16

New stuff. Just got the frame back from Marvin:

I'll do a little cleanup and send it off to powdercoat soon. Picked up an '02 ST4S donor bike a week ago. Also got my new M12 motor mounts from Nichols. Then the superbike heads will be sent off for porting. Looking forward to having it ready for Spring.

If anyone has any reason why a 996 wiring harness, throttle bodies, and 1.6 ECU won't work, speak now or forever hold your peace.

stiglarsenDK

nine16 wroteNew stuff. Just got the frame back from Marvin: I'll do a little cleanup and send it off to powdercoat soon. Picked up an '02 ST4S donor bike a week ago. Also got my new M12 motor mounts from Nichols. Then the superbike heads will be sent off for porting. Looking forward to having it ready for Spring. If anyone has any reason why a 996 wiring harness, throttle bodies, and 1.6 ECU won't work, speak now or forever hold your peace.

Running the st4s with its original electronics, throttles, cables set ect is the easy and most likely the best option to get her going ... but hey easy is only half the fun .... 😉

Few inputs from here, working on a racer ST4S engine project myself...

I have shimed the engine holes down to 10mm with tight fit alu bushings..that did the job and eliminated the drilling and tapping...

I'll have keep the original wire harness (SP5 style) and P08, and replace the left side to a SPS configuration.. Timing gear set and cover a dual pick ups from 996 sps is needed.. I have found sps chips (for P08) that should work with the dual injector, SPS heads/T1 cams and open 45/50MM pipe work and open cans...Result is still pending but if the overall result seem to work, ill redo the bottom side w pankl and HC pistons.. to finish her off.

Good luck with your project..

nine16

Well, I didn't want to mess with the red key/ecu or anything. Are the throttle bodies the same?

marvin

Personally I wouldn't go with the SPS covers, etc., and the P8. I would use the 1.6 ECU and the ST4S TB's, etc. (no red key thinghy!). With the tunerpro system you can burn your own chips more easily than with the P8. (although I did just see a post about a P8 map for the tunerpro)

P.S.
The ST4S TB's are single injector. You could run the dual injector TB's but according to Brad Black you have to go into hex and change the values to use them.

brad black

the only way to use the dual injector throttle bodies with a 1.6m or 59/5am is to wire them both together. only the p8 has 4 injector drivers with corresponding single or dual software.

stiglarsenDK

brad black wrotethe only way to use the dual injector throttle bodies with a 1.6m or 59/5am is to wire them both together. only the p8 has 4 injector drivers with corresponding single or dual software.

Would that be why p08 for racing even after launch of 1.6M ?

Concerning the TB's necks on sp4s versions... They are bigger than the 851 92 and earlier version and that plastic air box will not take the bigger trompets...may be a strada airbox 93 will clear the cross bar and TB's and take the bigger dia trompets.... in case you will go with a non 3 pcs carbon airbox...

brad black

i think the mf3 came in not much after that, possibly with the triple injector bikes of 97. they probably used the p8 in the sp so they could use two pick ups in whatever ecu they ran.

nine16

I have the 3 piece cf airbox and removable cross brace.

nine16

Frame is powdercoated and a few more bits have arrived--damper, aluminum battery box, AP clutch master, and the all-important "wings" to mount the fairing to the CF intake runners which act as the front subframe.

nine16

Been a few weeks.

SPS cams are on the way. High compression Pistals to follow. 996 superbike heads to be ported. More goodies like Ti rocker pins. Hoping for suitable Mg triples, either for the reworked Showas or possible the right set of Ohlins.

I think I may stick with the ST4S's 5.9M ECU and throttle bodies. I believe the local Ducati dealer can reflash those while dyno tuning.

Anyone have a diagram of the sleeves and spacers for the old 3 spoke magnesium Marchesinis? It's now coming up on a year since I dismantled them, refurbished the wheels, and replaced the bearings. I'm not sure how well I'll remember which way they go back together. I also have a Marvic rear but no matching front.

BARONROJO

That's the way I chose: 5.9 ECU and SBK heads with SPS camshafts and Sil Motor spaguetti full system. I mapped the ECU with an S4R map for Termi full system to run in the engine. And it works wonderfully, at least in midrange, with no weak or flat spots. After 1000 km I think I have go no further that 7500-8000 rpm but from 4000 on midrange is really powerful.

I have yo take the bike to be mapped but the fine tuner is a bit far and is still a bit depressive as he is the mechanic of Daniel Rivas, one of the pilots dead in Laguna Seca earlier this year... but winter's coming and I hope I'll find the good moment.

nine16

What would be involved with fitting a Monster S4 (magnesium) rear wheel to the 851? Is side-side spacing an issue? What about sprocket or brake offset? It appears to have a larger axle. Is the solution there to shim the axle, go with different bearings, or machine the swingarm for the larger axle?

BABA

Do you have the carrier sprocket (different than strada bike) and different spacers with ?

Normally you can use this wheel without problem.

For the rear axle, indeed, it's bigger on S4 (25 mm vs 17 mm).
You can make the same sort of spacers than on Racing bikes which are using a 23 mm axle in 25 mm inside diameter bearings, by reducing the inside diameter to 17 mm.
It's just an adaptation with other spacers.

nine16

Well, I sold the 888 SPO Limited. More funds for this rebuild...and I'm going to need them.

Ben Fox has some high comp pistons, Carrillo rods, and is balancing a splined 996RS crank w/primary gears for me now. The superbike heads are getting a little clean up before the Ti rocker pins and SPS cams go in and lightweight gears go on. Microtec M197 ECU will control everything, but I may need to go all the way to Georgia to tune it.

Picked up some 5-Spoke Marchesinis and they are on the way:

I've been debating the best plan for the front end. I think I'll just put the best internals I can into the '91 Showas. Triples could be a likely change, with less offset and more magnesium.

I still need to figure out what the hell to do to mate the original fuel tank and it's side fittings with a pump and then connect it all to the ST4S loom. Anyone got suggestions? Then I have to make new receivers for the front pins. Also, will the opening at the front of the tank help or hurt things? Part of me thinks just filling the side taps, gutting the whole bottom of the tank, and making a new one for the round ST4S pump assembly would be the best solution.

I found some cheap 50mm spaghetti headers. They are for an S4 though. Somehow I'll have to find a way to make up some high mount midpipes and cans.

And finally, there's the seat. I didn't realize this at the time, but when I converted the rearset mounts to 888-style, I lost the lower mounting points for the tail. So now do I just run an 888 tail or (hopefully) trim the corners to clear the rearsets? With a carbon fiber tail, do you think it will be rigid enough to avoid blowing out with no bottom fastening points? I guess I could simply secure each side with a zip tie, but that does not seem very elegant.

Anyway, with the motor away, I've temporarily mocked up the CycleCat rearsets and front end. Makes me feel like I'm making progress.

Viper1

Adam - you going to track this thing this coming summer? If so, let me know what track you'll be at and I'll track/race the same day. I would love to see this thing in person!!!!

nine16

Yes, I'd definitely like to track it at Road America. My target date for finishing the bike is end of March. I would really like to take it down to MotoGP at COTA.

I'm also hoping to go to Barber next Fall--possibility of me or a (faster) friend racing it there.

Jammin851

Road america is a favorite of mine. I would love to join you there.

nine16

Marchesini 5 spoke magnesiums arrived. Excellent shape.

Spaghetti headers arrived too...

Unfortunately, this one must have slipped through quality control. They inner tube walls haven't been ground back to the welds. I'll have some work to do with a grinder and a long burr.

12" carbide burr. 1 joint unshrouded, 2 to go.

CalebSBK

Great project, thanks for positing pictures of your build along the way.

Are you planning on racing this bike in AHRMA?

nine16

Thanks. I don't have the time or money to race in any truly dedicated fashion, nor do I have any pretensions of glory. For the most part, I'll be happy to do a few track days a year. I'll be getting it on the street too. 😄

However...the bike is being built with the purpose if it being legal (and competitive) in the AHRMA Next Generation Superbike class. And there is a chance I'll get my racing license to enter the bike at Barber this year.

I will keep the electric starter. Tail light and projector headlight will be removable. Unbolt the side stand and race!

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