wgsvintage
Chris - last weekend, did Reno shed any historical light on the earliest 851's Jimmy raced that you want to pass along?
Bill
nine16
There hasn't been a whole lot to report as I'm basically waiting on information and possibly additional original parts.
Not being a racer, I will say that if getting a VIN is an option I am that much more likely to keep it. I lean toward having the frame repaired and braced for an ST4S donor 996 motor. Then try to create a street able bike using as many of the original parts as possible (like the Cerianis with new internals) and tracking it once or twice a year wearing the number 33.
If I can't get a VIN it would probably be better to have someone else take up the mantle and restore it, as it would be difficult for me to justify the expense for a "once a year bike".
nine16
Chris had some good information--even trying to pick Reno's brain (who didn't remember much.) Anyway, it looks like I'm going to proceed with the rebuild myself. I think the Ceriani forks will be available, as well as some of the original fairings. From here, I'll have to look for a donor ST4S. I think I'll just go with classic red livery and pick up stickers with the name of each owner for the windscreen.
nine16
Ok, I'm hoping to have the frame back from repair soon. I also had a very nice conversation with Chris Jensen a while back and I have the perspective that as these bikes were always changing, I'm going to use original parts wherever possible and practical, but not sweat it otherwise--the important thing is that it honors the past racers and gets back on the track. I'm hoping to reunite the old Cerianis with the bike (but with modern internals). I'll see if new life can be breathed into the Fox shock as well. The motor will be a 996cc ST4S, as a concession to availability and reliability, not to mention competitiveness should someone else decide to race it in Next Gen Superbike. For me, I'll just try to use it for trackdays as often as possible.
In addition to an ST4S donor bike, I'll also be looking for a few other things;
High mount full system exhaust (pref 50mm)
End caps with tabs for the secondary hangers
Aluminum tube front fairing stay
851 racing solo tail/seat--fiberglass or CF considered
Racing front fairing section (no headlight)--Fiberglass or CF considered
Airbox which will work with the ST4S motor and Jan's corse intakes
996 heads for use with the ST4S motor (stock or ported/other Next Gen Superbike legal mods)
Hi comp pistons
996 SPS or other suitable cams
Period radial clutch master cylinder to go with the gold anodized Brembo brake one pictured earlier in this thread. I do have a set of RCS masters I could use though.
Since there's nothing to show yet, but threads without pics are boring, I'll throw out a pic of the new pad and a few of the the SPO that I took with a real camera.
Viper1
Adam - I have a tail section, nose and sides from a race bike in very good shape. I IM'd for your email and I can send pictures.
Steve
Foggy 888
Does anyone want the original 851 race heads that Adamo used when he raced this bike? One of them is pretty bad with the valves broken off and damage to the combustion chamber. They are free to any one of the principals that owns/owned the bike (Chris, Adam, or any one of Paul's family), they just have to pay for boxing the heads up and shipping them. Otherwise it if to ebay with them.
Regards,
Brian
nine16
Very generous offer. Would be cool, but with so much else missing, it doesn't look like that's the way this build is heading, so hopefully Chris Jensen could put them to good use. The project is picking up steam though. I bought the fairings from Viper and spent hours tonight removing stickers/residue, cleaning, waxing, and polishing. Very pleased with the results:
May also have a line on an interesting tail section to complete the set...
nine16
I just thought of something. Tracking down race cases, 851 wiring harness, P7, throttle bodies, radiator, etc, etc remains daunting, and the reason for going the 996cc ST4S route, but what about a 916cc ST4 or Monster S4 donor??? Aren't the cases and stud spacing the same dimensions as the 851/888? Sure, it would be less potent than a 996, but that would be pretty cool to have part of the motor live on.
Viper1
nine16 wroteVery generous offer. Would be cool, but with so much else missing, it doesn't look like that's the way this build is heading, so hopefully Chris Jensen could put them to good use. The project is picking up steam though. I bought the fairings from Viper and spent hours tonight removing stickers/residue, cleaning, waxing, and polishing. Very pleased with the results:
May also have a line on an interesting tail section to complete the set...
Glad to have been able to help! They did turn out nice! By the way I have a 98 SPS wiring harness I think that fits a P7?
nine16
Foggy helped me determine that ST4S was indeed the way to go. To that end, I've already got a set of complete 996 heads on the way do replace the drop cam ones. All good rockers and they also have lightweight pulleys and 748SP cams. I am not familiar with the characteristics of these cams, so if anyone has information on whether they are suitable or not, please chime in. Now, back to hunting down that ST4S donor bike...
marvin
748SP cams. IO, 44, IC, 72, EO, 77, EC, 42, Intake valve lift (in mm), 10.87. Exhaust valve lift, 9.0
They look a little extreme for what you are doing IMHO!
marvin
P.S.
For reference, 916/996 SPS cams (T1) (probably the best for what you are doing)
Again at 1mm lift, IO, 14, IC, 73, EO, 57, EC, 23, Intake valve lift, 10.8, Exhaust valve lift, 9.8
marvin
Someone who knows more about cams needs to step in here because I know only marginally more than the kid who bags my groceries at the local supermarket!
IMO those 748SP cams are not what you want. It's what Ducati tried for years with their "G" and "431" cams. They didn't do diddly squat until 8K, pulled really hard to 12K. But, a 996 will last only for a very short time above 10K. (why Ducati blew so many engines) From my limited knowledge those 748SP cams will act similarly!
nine16
I was pretty sure these wouldn't be good, but for the price I paid for complete 996 heads with cams and rockers and everything, it was a no brainer. I'll find something, whether just stock 996 or if I need to fork out for real SPS or copies. I've owned a '98 and a '00 SPS and another regular 996 with SPS cams, and they are definitely the business. Those motors are even more "fun" than the 996R.
nine16
OK, picking up steam. Frame should be back soon and off to powdercoat (white, of course). Found a 15k mile ST4S donor bike for a good price. I've got 996 superbike heads and I'll probably go for some Vee Two cams (SPS copies).
After I get the 996 motor, ST radiator, etc in there, I plan to switch to the 1.6 ECU, TBs, and complete harness from a 996 superbike. What do I do about a fuel pump and those fuel taps on either side of the tank?
Got the CF intake runners and airbox from Jan, but missing the dash panel. Also, I need the little "wings" that go from the intakes to mount the fairing. Anyone know where to get those??? With this setup, does it really not require bracing up near the would-be mirror locations?
I think I'll even be able to "recycle" the ST4S title, running a bar end mirror, little 996 projector lamp, a tail light, and enjoy this on the street as well as trackdays.
I'll need to come up with an overflow bottle. Not hard.
Looking for an appropriate full exhaust system.
Anything else for the motor swap?
Mbracing748
Hi Guys,
Just to let you know that my Race 888 is running a ST4s engine, slightly tuned for reliability.
The spec of the engine is below: -
996 HC pistons
H - Steel Carrillo Con rods
996 Heads gas flowed.
Standard CAMS but dialed in.
Balance crank.
St4s ECU remapped.
50mm Exhaust.
Standard 996 Injector bodies
749 flywheel and stator (almost same weight as race one!!)
134BHP at rear wheel.
Mr.R
Just a couple of answers for you here...
The V Two 9*6 SPS cam copies are "604's" they're very good IME/IMO.
I've had very good results when setting them at 107/107 centre lines, lots of grunt, top end without reving the motor past 9,500 rpm.
Marvin on here made a batch of the brackets that you want, I'm pretty sure he still has a drawing to make them.
For the overflow bottle?
Any plastic container will do the job really, I cabled tied one to the righthand side of my rad and run a hose from the rad to the bottom of the bottle, the cap ojn the bottle needs to vent to air, a small 4 or 5mm hole in it does the trick, it works a treat and has been doing for a few years now.
I've found it better to run a few cc's of coolant in the bottom of the bottle, it saves having to keep topping up the rad because of evaporation.
Steve R
nine16
Mr.R wroteThe V Two 9*6 SPS cam copies are "604's" they're very good IME/IMO.
I've had very good results when setting them at 107/107 centre lines, lots of grunt, top end without reving the motor past 9,500 rpm.
Marvin on here made a batch of the brackets that you want, I'm pretty sure he still has a drawing to make them.
Yeah, I've had 2 real SPSs and a regular 996 with SPS cams. I'm a believer.
Which brackets are you referring to? For an overflow bottle? Oh! For the intake-fairing mounts I hope! I'll ask him.
Adam
dudlington
Look in files under this thread :
Thread: Triangle Brkt.
I used this drawing and made up some super brackets.
Chris
what an amazing thread/community on here.
