My eBay punt

brad black

i would expect the sp1 to not have a b, as that was ducatis way of differentiating engine spec. mostly anyway. if the sp3 doesn't then that would be consistant with the sp being the first variant of the engine.

sp1 had the tri kit superbike engine (allegedly) running one injector per cylinder, so it's got the same cams and gearbox as the later sp2/3/4, but 851cc and possibly 32/28 valves. altho the kit came with the bigger cylinders, pistons and valves in the crate anyway.

c means basic 32/28 valve head, needing mods.

spike

but what about my A2 stamp !! and if like andy says his has a B and is verified as an sp 1 ?????
i dont know !!!

spike

spike

the factory spec differences between the sp variants are 1,2,3,all have the same valve sizes , valve timing , however it states 11.5 compression as opposed to 11.0 for the 2/3, the gearbox ratios differ to the later sps but are the same as the stradas , it is also by far the lightest at 396.82 dry compared to 414.46 for the 2 and 3 unfortunatley they give the power at the crank for the 1 and at the wheel for the 2and 3 these are Kw 91 ( CV ) 122 for the 1 at the crank and 80 and 109 at the wheel for the 2 and 82 and ( 111 ) for the 3

spike

as for the B they may have just pulled a set of cases off the line and sent em to the race factory you never know

Paul851

spike wrotebut what about my A2 stamp !! and if like andy says his has a B and is verified as an sp 1 ????? i dont know !!! spike

The SP1 wasn't a listed model as far as I can see and was just built for a local race series , The myth is , a lot of SP1,s where bought by Joe Public rather than racers there by alerting Ducati to the marketing possibilities of the SP range of bikes hence they all came with plaques from the SP2 onwards . So I wouldn't worry about the B spike as most of the SP1,s probably started out as bog standard Strada,s and they just bunged the leftover 851 kit race spares at them 😁

Paul851

Just to muddy the water somewhat my 888 engine has a W4B number ?

spike

Paul851 wroteJust to muddy the water somewhat my 888 engine has a W4B number ?

so in conclusion we have asertained that 888 engines do not have the B they are 888W4 if they are an Sp, and if what paul says is right the sp1 bikes were built for want of a better word by accident , and as brad says all 851 engines bear the B , so the only people that actually know if an 851 engine is one of the hand built ones are the factory !!

simple really !!😁

spike

p.s i was right about the frame though😏

Paul851

I wouldn't go as far as to claim i,m right 😁 I think I saw the original theory about the SP1 in either Mick Walkers Ducati superbikes or one of Ian Falloons books.
That said , one of the books also claimed the SP1 was an 888 😏

Anyway I'm just off out to grind the B of my engine number , probably the nearest I will ever get to owning an SP to be honest 😁

spike

yeah but its passed a few hours on😄 and like always ducati hold the secrets , i did read that the sp2 was the last one to be built by " Hand " and probably as you say the 1 was a one off that they then realised they could make money on and have been doing eversince !! but realised that the " hand " built thing was tooooo expensive so just better bits but still on a production type line and the removal of the B !!

spike

Mr.R

I seriously Doubt that Ducati didn't plan to make the SP range.

You've only got to go back to the 750F1's to see the pattern of building a short run of specials, the Santa Monica, Laguna Seca and the Montjuic were all upgraded F1's.
Farther back to the 750SS Desmo only 100 built and the 1st 1975 900SS Desmo's were a run of only 200, both of these production runs were Homlogation specials for racing, but when the 900's flew out of the showroom doors whilst the GT860's hung around the penny well and truely dropped on Ducati's front door mat.
Which's the reasoning behind my opening statement here...

Spike,
I think the SP2's were the last 888SP's to be built in the race shop, in the same way that the
1st 300 750/900SS Desmo's were.

Steve R

spike

but did they use standard 851 cases pulled off the line and sent to the " sp " shop for the sp1,s

spike

Spike,
I think the SP2's were the last 888SP's to be built in the race shop, in the same way that the
1st 300 750/900SS Desmo's were.

Steve R[/QUOTE]

yeah thats what i,ve said , what i thought , said was the sp1s,2s, were hand built but then obviously it got expensive

Mr.R

spike wrotebut did they use standard 851 cases pulled off the line and sent to the " sp " shop for the sp1,s

I can't help you there Spike.
The new ST4 cases I've got aren't numbered, so I think they probably number them during or after the build??

On another note The Eagle has Landed mate...😄
Your SP Ohlins spindle and threaded boss arrived this morning, thanks for that it's quite a bit different to the Showa item.
I'll drop in to see the engineer next week to see what he thinks, do you think that I could find around 10 takers for a non magnetic Stainless Steal or Titanium front spindle set up for the SP Ohlins frontend on here, if I can get the price in the sensible ball park?
After I've spoken to the engineer maybe I'll float it on here?

Steve R

spike

could be interesting in ti ?? its quite a heavy item dont you think ??

spike

Mr.R

spike wrotecould be interesting in ti ?? its quite a heavy item dont you think ??spike

It's not that bad when compared to a Bevel item, but it would be a lot lighter in magnectic S/Steel or Ti'.
The best place to loose weight is always in the unsprung area IMO.

Steve R

spike

well i,m interested ,

andypocock

spike wrote... and if what paul says is right the sp1 bikes were built for want of a better word by accident , and as brad says all 851 engines bear the B , so the only people that actually know if an 851 engine is one of the hand built ones are the factory !!

My reply from Ducati seems to back this up. They don't have a build date for the SP1 half but know the day the SP3 half was built. The difference between a small race shop and a production line.

brad black

all the 851 strada motors have a B, never seen an SP1 motor and the SP2 on have ZDM888W4xxxxxx numbers. according to Falloon the SP1 had a wide ratio gearbox with the bigger valves and cams of the tri kit. so the cams should have A on then instead of A1.

andypocock

I've been in touch with another owner of an SP1 (his is mint, complete and untouched) and his engine is marked just like mine. The bike is well documented having been collected from the factory.

So all I can offer to the debate is that both the SP1s I know of have a ZDM851W4B*00???* engine number.

PS: I think my cams are marked A. With my not great eyesight I thought it looked like V but there was only one figure.

Paul851

Is their even an official factory engine number designation for the SP engines ? Or did they just pull all the bits from the stores build the bikes and then stick the plaque on ?
You would have hardly had to scrabble around on the floor at the factory checking engine numbers to see what where the SP,s 😁

spike

yes paul as brad says fromsp2 onwards they dont have the B the question is and it looks like the sp1 used normal 851 cases which were sent to the sp shop

spike

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