D4RKO
First of all Hello and thanks to this forum I have been given the encouragement to embark on this project !
So after a lot of reading (and thinking) I decided to jump into building a bike for myself based upon my favourite Ducati (888) and using an up to date engine from an ST4S
Nothing ground breaking but should be fun !
So far I have an 888 Frame and swingarm plus, ST4S (996) engine and ST4S front end (part assembled by someone else)
The next step is to build her up, ride her and then pull her apart for some much needed tidying up over winter
The first hurdle is the electrical side, I have no loom so have options, what would anyone advise ?
ST4S loom and ECU ?
ST4S loom and 996 ECU ?
996 Loom ?
Is the best ECU the IAW 1.6 or IAW 5.9
Which clocks to use ?
The aim is to build as simple as possible and tune for road use with possibly only daytime MOT so no lights etc
Any advice very welcome...
brad black
the advantage of a flash tech ecu like the 59m (i'd run a 5am personally as they're more physically reliable) compared to the eprom tech 1.6m ecu is that you can get all the software you need to modify the 59/5am mapping free on line and you just buy the lonelec cable. if you go 1.6m you need eproms, meaning buying from someone like me or buying a stock of eproms, and a programmer and diying it. and the tech is very old school now. i can't buy new erasable eproms anymore, like you always could.
D4RKO
Great info, thanks for that
I already have the Lonelec cable for other bikes so thats a good point
Would using the 59M or 5AM dictate using an ST4S loom then ?
BARONROJO
My bike runs a ST4S engine with a Monster S4R wiring loom (same engine) and a 59 ECU. Regarding ST4S, keep in mind that there are done different wiring loom/ECU arrangements and the best one (later models) are not easy to find.
With SPS camshafts dialed to 105/107, 1,00 mm squish, antes spaghetti Sil motor system and custom mapping (made by myself on a zeotronix datalogger and sucessive roaf tests), the bike was dynoed 138 rwbp!
dudlington
Blimey that is a lot of RwHP for such an engine.
I think I have an ST4 cable harness that might come in handy for your project. If someone with greater knowledge can confirm ?. It is up for sale so if interested make me an offer. It is in super condition as it has been upstairs for the last 15 years in storage. I don,t think I,ll ever use it.
D4RKO
Thanks, could be ideal !
Any idea which ECU it works with ?
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Millihaff
D4RKO wroteThanks, could be ideal !
Any idea which ECU it works with ?
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That's the same wiring (from a ST4) I used on my 851 with a ST4S and it's for the 1,6m but the wires for the front is missing on the picture as far I can se..
dudlington
Yes according to this chart IAW M1.6 computer.
Wiring on the front......................you mean another Harness needs to be added with the lights on etc ?.
Millihaff
dudlington wroteYes according to this chart IAW M1.6 computer.
Wiring on the front......................you mean another Harness needs to be added with the lights on etc ?.
Yes. It connects at the connector to the right on the picture. The sensor for air temperature and altitude, main relay, controls at the handlebars, ignition key, rev counter etc.
brad black
the loom you run will largely set the mounting position for the ecu, and in that case if you want it on the side next to the battery you'll need to use the st4s loom.
the s4r loom will have it on top of the vertical, which i doubt you have room for without a monster tank.
the difference between st4s and s4r (desmoquattro) largely is the s4r has two radiator fans. if you run s4r loom and ecu you need two fans. otherwise it'll run the one fan continuously. s4r also has the starter logic circuit - clutch switch, runs with stand down in neutral, not in gear - which you'll either want or not want.
later s4ts with the restyle has a canbus dash, so one of the sensors (air pressure?) is in the dash and you won't have that ecu input unless you use that dash. likewise, if you use a later st4s 5am ecu file in an early st4s it wont have that sensor input.
D4RKO
Thanks for that Brad
I guess if I was thinking of locating the battery and ECU under the seat I would need to modify or make a custom loom ? Or use something like a street fighter loom (although I presume that would add more complications again with sensors etc) ?
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dudlington
Millihaf ..........can you confirm when you used the ST4 loom (Same as mine) where you installed your ECU. Looks to me like it could be to the rear of the bike ?????. Also where could you place the battery ?.
mikesps
The 5.9m on an older ST4S harness will just about reach under the seat. I didn't want to move it there as I have a carbon under tray and it looked like it would get hot from the rear pipe or wet from the rear wheel. Probably both unless I made some sort of housing.
I ended up fitting it behind the headlght, using the horn mount and top instrument mount on the front sub frame.
Mike
D4RKO wroteThanks for that Brad
I guess if I was thinking of locating the battery and ECU under the seat I would need to modify or make a custom loom ? Or use something like a street fighter loom (although I presume that would add more complications again with sensors etc) ?
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BARONROJO
This is a picture of the S4R loom on my bike. Not a single wire was cut to house any of the ancillaries you see here:
Fuse box: on a custom made bracket screwed to the coil mount on the frame. This is a simple conversion as there is NO CAN line.
By the way, I run just one fan on the bike and It works ok.
Starter relay: on a custom bracket bolted to the battery support.
59 ECU: Bolted to the battery support on the left side. On the right side there's a small plate bolted on one ene to the battery support and on the other to the ECU.
Lithium battery: To make some room un the battery support.
The starter wire has been custom made (longer) since the picture to go around the front of the battery support to make a nicer arrangement.
dudlington
Tidy job there................
D4RKO
Good work there BARONROJO
This looks like an ideal setup to me, I'm keen to avoid can bus systems and keep as simple as possible so perhaps the S4R loom is the best option especially with the 59 ECU
Is it possible to run the 5AM ECU on the S4R loom ?
MrBenn
You have the making of a perfect dream machine there. Nice choice of base components.
D4RKO
Thanks MrBenn
Its the details I have to work on now, the wiring harness / ECU choice being the first hurdle !
I have started to assemble other parts and look forward to getting her up and running asap..
brad black
the 59m and 5am ecu are externally and functionally the same, only the map files vary between the 59m and the two versions of the 5am - 103 and 610. you put the right file into any of them and they'll all work as required.
the wiring looms used are functionally mostly the same, and an s4r and st4s loom will be much the same excepting the two fans pretty much. the loom is not relevant as long as what connects to what is correct. the ecu sets the model. as such, an s4r loom with an st4s ecu runs a single fan. but use an s4r ecu base file and it'll cause issues.
D4RKO
Thanks Brad
ST4 loom on order, I'll still need an ECU so will try and track down a 5AM for a reasonable cost..
If running a single fan can you use a resistor to fix the continuous running or can that be fixed when coding the ECU ?
If not I'll just run two fans I guess
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