Writing on my S4 crank - should it be there?

marvin

[QUOTE=griff851;70247]You could try negotiation. Either passive or aggressive, depends on your relationship. 'Honey the oven looks a bit dirty I'll clean it for you because you are my world. Or, 'woman you filthy cow, no wonder dinner is always crap, i'll Clean the oven again... But first I just have too..
Alternatively go to bed, wake up a some stupid hour, do the cases like elves making shoes, clean the oven and time it so the wife wakes up and finds you cleaning, and score full points. Don't forget to blame the neighbors for the kitchen smelling suspiciously like an oil refinery. Have flowers ready as a back up, just in case you hear something about stupid bastard or divorce. 😁

Ps maximum expansion is at 220°C[/QUOTE

Very Risky !!

marvin

And make sure you put the bearing in the proper orientation. A friend put his in backwards and it didn't work very well !!

marvin

Griff,

Do you heat them to 220C ?

Mr.R

Phone Ducati Coventry/JHP and ask for the spare parts dept'.
They hold quite a few spares in stock and had Blue shells last week.

Steve R

hindsight

[QUOTE=marvin;70249]

griff851 wroteYou could try negotiation. Either passive or aggressive, depends on your relationship. 'Honey the oven looks a bit dirty I'll clean it for you because you are my world. Or, 'woman you filthy cow, no wonder dinner is always crap, i'll Clean the oven again... But first I just have too.. Alternatively go to bed, wake up a some stupid hour, do the cases like elves making shoes, clean the oven and time it so the wife wakes up and finds you cleaning, and score full points. Don't forget to blame the neighbors for the kitchen smelling suspiciously like an oil refinery. Have flowers ready as a back up, just in case you hear something about stupid bastard or divorce. 😁 Ps maximum expansion is at 220°C

This all rings a bell - some years ago, I went to my local recycling centre and asked if I could uplift an old oven. The jobsworth there explained clearly that there was no possible way that could happen - he's not allowed to allow disposed equipment to be released. After a few minutes pointing out that the whole point of the facility was to allow equipment to be recycled, I had a Bosch oven in the back of the car for no money, which I then installed into the workshop.

However - because the engine I was working on had seen some trauma - I decided that the cases deserved a good wash, and after degreasing and rinsing, I waited until wifey was out of the house, then popped them into the dishwasher, and put it on the maximum programme.

Unfortunately, wifey came home earlier than expected, only to innocently ask "what's in the dishwasher?". Now there's a question that there can never be a good outcome from....

griff851

marvin wroteGriff, Do you heat them to 220C ?

No, I find (checked with a laser thermometer) 160, they are prone to stick, 180-185 is about right with a level drop, and if it cocks and your quick you can still fish it out with a light tap and fingers and go again. Your right about the high end, you are starting to anneal. Cases made of lasagna are although still Italian, just not as functional as they could be. 😁

MrBenn

Mr.R wrotePhone Ducati Coventry/JHP and ask for the spare parts dept'. They hold quite a few spares in stock and had Blue shells last week. Steve R

The funny thing about this is that Ducati Coventry is about 5 minutes from my mums house. I have driven past it 100s of time just completely forgot about its existence. I should take the grandkids down to see her at some point during to summer holiday so I can kill two birds with one stone.

Regarding the taking things from recycling centres it really saddens me when I see some of the great stuff that gets thrown away. They always refuse to let me have anything - Ive seen some really nice old school BMX's at the recycling place in grimsby and I was not allowed to have it. I even offer 50 pounds and they continued to say it was illegal. Maybe my wife has told them not to sell me anything!

220c did seem quite hot but I was not to know any better.

Appreciate all the help. Im stripping the rest of the bottom end to cases tonight. I might try the dishwasher to clean them up. Im sure I can do it around 2am. I'll just say that I couldn't sleep and felt an urge to do some cleaning.

Such fun!

Thanks again,

Alan

griff851

Sorry about that. 220 was just a point of interest. Your cases will be fine, even if it did start to anneal it would accomplish little more than some stress relief possibly. Soak time comes into play with Aluminium.

jakepeewee

What a great tip about using the dishwasher for cleaning the cases! Never thought of that.

Claire4dukes

jakepeewee wroteWhat a great tip about using the dishwasher for cleaning the cases! Never thought of that.

Be careful here, most dishwasher powders are highly corrosive on aluminium....

MrBenn

Claire4dukes wroteBe careful here, most dishwasher powders are highly corrosive on aluminium....

A good warning. Im planning on cleaning both the cases up tonight and was going to use brake cleaner and washing up liquid. It will be great fun Im sure.

Ive got to keep momentum up because the moment I leave it for a few days I fear that will turn into weeks, then months. I am the king of procrastination and "i'll just do this instead". This is why I prefer to work by getting one bit sorted at a time. I have had the (now probably not going to used) frame powder coated first. Now its engine. Once the engine is done its on the the wheels. Im not good at multi-tasking or working on several elements at a time.

hindsight

MrBenn wroteA good warning. Im planning on cleaning both the cases up tonight and was going to use brake cleaner and washing up liquid. It will be great fun Im sure. Ive got to keep momentum up because the moment I leave it for a few days I fear that will turn into weeks, then months. I am the king of procrastination and "i'll just do this instead". This is why I prefer to work by getting one bit sorted at a time. I have had the (now probably not going to used) frame powder coated first. Now its engine. Once the engine is done its on the the wheels. Im not good at multi-tasking or working on several elements at a time.

Yes - I started with degreaser, then moved onto brake cleaner then onto water and washing-up liquid, submerging the cases completely in the sink in very hot water... they were mostly clean when I popped them into the dishwasher (with no tablets! 😉)

MrBenn

hindsight wroteYes - I started with degreaser, then moved onto brake cleaner then onto water and washing-up liquid, submerging the cases completely in the sink in very hot water... they were mostly clean when I popped them into the dishwasher (with no tablets! 😉)

I would be concerned that the reflection from such shiny engine cases would hurt my eyes after all of that cleaning. Id better grab the sunglasses if I am to follow your example 😎

hindsight

MrBenn wroteI would be concerned that the reflection from such shiny engine cases would hurt my eyes after all of that cleaning. Id better grab the sunglasses if I am to follow your example 😎

To explain - the engine in question had suffered a fair amount of piston and barrel damage, so I was super-keen to take every precaution that I'd removed all debris..

MrBenn

hindsight wroteTo explain - the engine in question had suffered a fair amount of piston and barrel damage, so I was super-keen to take every precaution that I'd removed all debris..

Definitely worth doing then.. Nothing worse than building dirty engines or scratching a fresh bore with some grit thats been hiding somewhere.

Well, ive de-greased and washed my cases down - all looks remarkably well so its a case of new bearings and throw it all back together again.

I was considering having the crank balanced while I was at it. Is it really worth it on a road bike? I dont really want to spend too much money on it but I like to do things correctly I guess.

Ive been looking at some used 955 kits but again - im not sure its actually worth the work. Some information I have seen suggests I need to get cases machined for 955 (96mm) bore. Surely if I am getting them bored and messed with i should just go with 996 cylinders and pistons as that needs machining too?

I should actually just ask this - is there any recommended books for tuning the 916 engines? Im sort of tempted to make it a little bit nicer while its apart. It looks like 900SS cranks are quite inexpensive and probably worth it if Im messing about with cc's

Anyway, any recommendations of reading literature much appreciated.

Thanks again,

Alan

marvin

my two cents is:

Balancing is worth it even on a street bike. 955, in my opinion is not worth the money, neither is the SS crank. If I was doing it I would buy some Pistal pistons and up the compression a bit. Carrillo rods if you're feeling flush. Then a balance job is essential. SPS cams (or V2 604) would be nice too.

brad black

balancing is worthwhile, especially if stuff is being changed.

you can't machine the non 996 cases to take a 996 cylinder as there's not enough meat left around the studs. you have to machine the cases to fit a 955 kit too, so it gets pricey there.

i'd go the 900 crank. it's a bit more capacity so you get more comp with std pistons, and you lift the cylinders a little which removes any belt tension issues even with the squish set.

or leave the cylinders where they are and machine the piston crowns a little around the edges giving a little dome for more comp.

marvin

different strokes for different folks. No pun intended!

Personally I don't even mess with desmoquattro's (I have boxes of desmoquattro parts) Why bother when you can buy a Testastretta engine on ebay for not much money!

MrBenn

Well, well, well

Now I am confused as to what to do next. I think I have mentioned that my bores are a bit scored but I have found some in France that are not too expensive standard 916 bore. A point was mentioned earlier by Marvin that the Testastretta parts seem cheaper than Desmo bits. It would probably be cheaper to sell my S4 cases and buy ST4S cases for larger capacity. Most bits seem to swap over. Anyway - heres my plan - I need to get focussed again!

900SS crank,
S4 rods
916 Standard bore pistons
Get them balanced with rods and pistons
Put into case with fresh bearing
Bolt it together keeping S4 close ration box (748)
Get used barrels
Throw it all together with new rings

If I stumble across a cheap set of 95mm pistons and barrels I can fit them.
If I dont then i can fit them once the bike is built.

I think that will give me a decently built engine that shouldn't blow up during normal use and should be a nice bike on the street.

I then need to decide what to do next. I am yet to see a good 888 built of a monster frame. I might be wrong but that seems a pursuit not worth pursuing. The problem I have is that i have had a 916 and an S4 and really like the iconic 888/851 look. I guess I'll have to hang it all off the S4 frame until a good, reasonably priced frame appears or my finances improve 😄

Im in no hurry anyway so I can just collect nice bits for a while. Im going with 5 spokes (as I have a rear already) so its quality forks and rear suspension after the motor is built.

I should probably build an S4 as I have half of one but wheres the fun in that?

marvin

There's no reason to get ST4S cases if you are going to use 916 size pistons. The only reason to get the St4S cases is if you want to make a 996 size engine. Your S4/916 barrels won't fit up to the ST4S cases anyway.

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