griff851
Plan C. Plasma spraying now that's the go $250 per roller, which would make them the most expensive component on the engine. Thanks for the offer Marvin, but I decided to take them to the CNC place up the road, which does a lot of pulley stuff as it happens. AUS$180 for all 4. I'm going to increase the guide pulley to 45mm and the tension pulley to 46mm. The difference between the 851 ones and the newer ST4 ones is 3mm,ST$'s being the larger, so I added another 1mm on the tension pulley just for luck. I was going to have a shot at it myself, but the 1-2° curved taper on the crown is above my skill level on the lathe, best left to the CNC machine I feel. They'll be ready next week.
Griff
griff851
Finding myself with some spare hours and not much to do while waiting for pulley's, I decided to fix a small hassle that was annoying me. End float on the selector drum. So I pulled the engine apart! Couldn't help myself it was just sitting there beckoning me. Fix me. Fix me.
One of the joys of using 3 bond is it's easy to clean off, if had used a paper gasket I may not have bothered. Anyway, an hour and a bit 1 cup of coffee and a smoke later the engine was apart and I started the re-shim. Much to my disgust the only shims available were 0.3 and 1mm I had a 0.3 on the lh side and a 3x 0.3m on the rh. End float was 0.12 and 0.2 is about the preferred amount. (0.10-0.40mm is the tolerance on S4 monster, which is what my gearbox came out of). So I spent a pleasant time grinding off 0.02 off each of the 0.3mm shims. Next time I think I'll get a large speaker magnet and stick it on the Bridgeport, and stick the shims on that.
Well it all went well and the engine just fell back together again. End float is now 0.18mm, so much better than 0.12mm. The only downside is the Cometic head gaskets .45mm (0.018") steel. They only like going on once. So I'm up for a new set, but I sourced a cheap set here.
I stuck in standard woodruff keys(0° offset) in the cams and decided, to have a play with the Ducati belt tension tool while I had some time. I set up the belt on the rear pot using the approx method of pushing the belt up to the bottom of the lip between the cams, which used all but the slightest turn on the adjuster nut. Set up the electric eye and flicked my belt. 197hz.....Mmmmmm Ok maybe I do have enough adjustment on my Pulley's. So I set the tension at 110hz. Plenty of adjust left now. Ah... I don't need larger pulleys (I'm using late model ones off an ST4S). Good. I didn't really have $180 spare anyway, so I'll cancel them.
I then pushed up with a fair amount of force on the belt between the cam's. The belt upper surface rose about a mm above the the top of the lip. Now whether this is the same for an 851/888 head I cannot say, but as a rough guide for a drop cam head, it would do if you were stuck.
Next spare moments in life it's dialing in the cams time.
Griff
griff851
Moving right along at the speed of ten thousand startled Gazelles, Cam timing. Now because I have a couple of sets of standard cams I chose the least worn exhausts to go with the S4/ST4S Inlets, which was asking for trouble and I got it. But it is good trouble as it led to a greater understanding of the process known as "dialing in".
All the good measuring gear was put in place. TDC Indicator and DI with a little arm that sits on the closing shim, and a proper degree wheel.
Using Wood ruff keys the target is to get the cam lobe centers to be at the right degree for how you want the eng to perform. In my case I had to ask for the targets as i don't have enough knowledge (almost fuck all in reality) The 851 in its original configuration use to come on strong at 7k rpm and was pretty flat under that. I had the cam timing changed to smooth out the delivery from 5k onwards and it worked well. This time I want the same sort of delivery.
So at 8:00am I started setting up, and was doing my first reading on the horizontal head by 9. I used the method described in the speedzilla link to find lobe centres. After 15 min of getting my head around what was going on, the young fella came over and said fuck that. Use center line max lift. This involves taking readings of degrees either side of TDC at 0.05mm from estimated centre of the lobe, then subtracting the small number from the large, then dividing by 2, then adding this number to the small number. Repeat process to confirm.
My inlets came in fine, as they were designed to fit the drop cam heads. The exhausts came from standard 748 heads, they were out. One by 20° the other by 10°. The 10° was easy to fix as offset keys come in 2° increments up to 16°( if your wondering how I get the little ° to come up. Alt+0176). The 20° had to be, adv 10° on the cam and adv 10° on the jack shaft pulley, and I had to retard the inlet cam. But no it is not at simple. First I had no more 10° keys So by 5pm there I was, 3 cams in and one exh cam out by 8°. I resorted to 12° on the jack shaft, adv 8° on the exh and retard 6° on the inlet, it was about then that it all went pair shaped and I called it quits for the day
Today I went in and looked at the problem again. I resorted to putting a 0° key in the exh and seeing where it all was. After staring manically at the degree wheel it all seemed a bit odd. I was 12° towards my target from my very first reading. I stuck the 8° back in and found my self going backward. Ah…. woodruff keys were the wrong way around. So I reversed the Inlet and exh and yahoo I was in.
Center line max lift Inlet at 105.5, exh at 103.5 Both heads. The Inlet valve opening are advanced 1.0° and closing 1.5°, the exh valve open advanced 1.5° and the closing 2° from factory specs This gives a duration of Inlet 251° and exh 263° I believe this means that it will come on song somewhere estimated around 7300rpm, but as the exh has been lengthened slightly it won’t come on like a cut snake, a more broader civilized range, which is basically what I wanted. With the lightened flywheel I don’t want to be mid corner and the eng hit 7500 and the back end break traction. I’m far to old for that sort of excitement.
Griff
got2dv8
What no pix?😯
Robert
looking forward to and dreading the day I dial in my cams.
Mr.R
Hi Robert,
It sounds a lot harder than it actually is, but you do need to put your thinking head on...
I use V Two's alloy adustable cam pullies, they're a lot easier to set up than offset woodruff keys and easier to come by!
They're also lighter than the Strada standard steel pullies.
It's also a doddle if the motors on the bench and not still in the frame.
Steve R
got2dv8
Steve,
yes, I was planning on getting the Vee Two pullies... as I like the idea of adjust ability over the offset keys. I know it's cheaper to get keys.. but to have enough (or access to them) to do the job seems a bit tedious.
by the time I actually have the cazash to buy them, I will hopefully have enough know-how and proper measuring devices to do so.
Robert
brad black
got2dv8 wroteWhat no pix?😯
Robert
looking forward to and dreading the day I dial in my cams.
i think griff could make anything sound complicated.
griff851
brad black wrotei think griff could make anything sound complicated.
Its a special talent I have.😁 😁
Griff
griff851
Ta Da
10 months after I started, the engine is finished. I had a hectic 3 days fitting the engine, doing the 748 cooling circuit mod (Don't use the 748 water temp sensor it gives an incorrect reading on the temp gauge) and putting most of the bike back together (including a carbon fiber tank repair) while the wife was a way with the kids. I only managed to be one bit short and that was the breather valve, strange how things just disapear so I temporarily used my old 851 one. (The attractive gold bit hanging out mid bike)
I went and got the shop's van, loaded the machine up and shot off for a quick tune up.
My battery was cactus, so borrowed one, Stuck in some Comp 4 oil and coolant, squirted oil down the plug hole and hit the tit. It turned over beautifully, not a strange noise to be heard. The oil level dropped so the pump was working ( I almost threw on a gauge, but couldn't be arsed). I threw in a set of plugs, and hit the tit again. It roared to life straight away. A bit rough and wouldn't idle, but you would expect that after the TBs had been pulled apart. A quick turn of the bleed screw and it held its own. A quick check reveled a minor coolant leak (no washer under the bleed screw). Then it was on onto tuning bit. Vac gauges, CO meter, and multi meter plugged in and a bit of mucking around, (telling the young fella to fuck off I can actually do this etc, and arguing over TPS settings) and whaahoo! Set the vac to near on perfect on the gauges and found it was a bit rich (6.1 rear and 6.5), so plugged in the FIM box and dragged it down to 4.8ish. Man what a nice note from the cans. Nice and full, the boys reckoned more like a 996 than anything else. The throttle was very responsive and quick, all in all very sharp and fucking loud. Now I just have a few more things to do and I can go for a blast and see how the power is and use the FIM box to extract the best I can from it. I have a nice new bit of road near here that will be perfect for that.
Griff
guy851
Looking good there Griff
I look forward to hearing your first ride report
Still struggling with waiting for the expert to run mine up and set suspension/motor to my taste, frustrated as the summer is rubbish and its actually cold today and I am worried its gonna be over before I can have some track time.
Wish I felt more confident (and more time)to do more myself and had a better workshop as although I am allowed to work on my bike in the house.......running the motor is a bit of a no no.
Keep us posted
Guy851
Mr.R
Hi Grif,
She's looking good, well done that man!!
What no airbox?
I'd be interested what power you've managed to extract, what with your porting job on the 748 heads, new cams, 888 barrels/pistons, ST4 headers etc.
Are you going to throw the old girl on a dyno and are you confident enough in your ability as an engine builder? 😯😉
There was a recent artical in a British bike mag on the 888's, it gave the Strada's power as 94 rwbhp, which sounds about right to me for a standard bike/motor.
Your tweeks should see you well past that figure mate.
Steve R.
Formally the home of cheapskate tuning but...
The crown may well have passed over to Grif now?
spike
nahh come on steve you are the king of " Cheap Tunning "
spike
griff851
The ebay eng, starting from cases only, roughly comes in just over US3000. Not bad considering how much of that was freight from the US and Europe. A 998 was in the shop recently and had blown a set of mains and an oil pump and the rebuild cost was approx US2500.
Mmmmm dyno run, I guess I have to consider that one. I'll wait until I've run it in a bit. Until then....It puts out 130hp and 80ftlb torque😁 Yeah baby!
Griff
got2dv8
Griff,
Wow! You finally did it... Hard to juggle family, career, and motorbike rebuilds😎 . I'd love to meet up and grab a cold one and listen to her purr. But, I'm broke and can't afford to fly halfway around the world and abandon my business and the wife and kids. So, maybe I'll just pick up a 6 pack of Fosters and toast one to you.😁
Robert
griff851
Thanks Robert, I had a Ginger beer myself. Gave up the piss years ago due to work related alcoholism. Unfortunately the purr (belonging to some fucking big prehistoric cat) was short lived, I had to give the battery back to the shop.🙁 Be another week or so until I can get one.
Afford the dyno Steve. Ha Ha I have to save up for battery and a breather valve first.
I'm actually considering setting up the "Get Griffy on the road sooner fund"
First I'll run a sweep on what the HP and torque will be. Winner gets $20 and I use the rest to fund the dyno run.😁 In the mean time I have a left testicle I don't need, so I'll sell that to some research mob. That will get the battery and breather and fuel to run it in a bit. Then because I look destitute on bad days, I'll set up in the mall with a tin can and sunglasses, rustle up some cash for new tyres, before the cops arrive and move me on.
Griff
PS I had the guy who brought my "Priceless" Carbie, turn up on his 350 single. Nice machine. He only does the little old things like that and Aero Macchi's. The naked 888 scared him with its shear brutality next to his little wizz banger. The rear tyre is almost as wide as his entire machine. 😁
Mr.R
Oh dear Grif my hearts pumping purple piss for you after reading that...😉
That idea about begging at the shops sounds good though, trouble is I'd probably get mugged for the tin in Plymouth our nearest city, pointless begging in town 'ere, have you ever met a farmer who didn't plead poverty?
The Cornish are tighter than anyone I've ever met, they make the Yorkshiremen look like philanthropists and they ARE tight!
Over here in the UK you can get a power run and printout for around £25 to £45, getting my PC III usb set up cost £180 for all day on the dyno and I can go back for 'tweeking' at no extra charge*.
Now I've done a couple of thousand miles on the motor since chucking it on the dyno, I've found a rough spot in the rev range at 5000 on small throttle openings, trouble is that at those revs on the Motorway it equates to 80ish mph, which's 10 mph over the legal limit but the Police turn a blind eye to that sort of speed anything over 100 mph is an instant ban...
The motors dead smooth at 90+ all the way to the redline, but I doubt that excuse would get me off of a ban in court. 😏
*I popped down to see the dyno pilot a couple of weeks back with a CD to get the map put on,mentioned the roughness and he said...
"No problem Steve just give me a ring to arrange a time to suit and we'll bung her on the dyno and smooth her out".
My guess on the sweepstake would be 103-5 rwbhp and 64 ft lbs of torque, which's somewhere around what a standard 888 strada with a 916 crank would kick out, I'm figuring that the 888 capacity with your ported 748 heads, squish set, bigger ST4 headers and the ST cams won't be far from that.
Steve R
marvin
I'm guessing about 110.
p.s. Good goin' Griff!!
griff851
Thanks guys, now you'ved egged me on and I'm going to have to throw it on the dyno, so I guess I better get real familiar with the FIM box. I personally am guessing more to 114hp and 70 ftlb torque due to the ceramic stuff as there is a couple of horses in it. The future will reveal all. The boys in the shop are going for 100-105.
Griff
griff851
I just got back in from my first real run. Nice smooth power up to 6K (running in), spins up easily and effortlessly, and running cool. Its 22°C out side, pipes a little on the rich side and the bike running at 70°C. It use to run at 80°C Ceramic coated pistons helping there I feel. Goody, it means I have room to lean out. So next ride will be with the FIM box attached. I'll lean off the whole map until I get temp rise and then richen up until creamy, then lean off a tad. After running in...the dyno!
Wahooo! Good to be back on the road. Now a boring running in. Oooo can't wait to open it up. Running 15/39 sprockets.
Griff
marvin
Cool! Don't baby it too much!!
