jr60
After spending months building the bike up, started to get the tell tale signs at the weekend that the started clutch is buggered. First place I turned for advice was this forum of course and have found a lot of very helpful advice by searching though. However still have a few queries;
-Is it better to replace the flywheel flange and starter ring gear along with the sprag clutch?
-Are these parts the same part numbers as the monster/748/916?
-Anybody know who would have these in stock in the UK (I am sure I have mentioned how crap our one and only Ducati dealer is, and would like to do this when fairing is away getting repainted).
-Is the lhs crankcase gasket the same as monsters etc?
-Planning to use a clutch holding tool instead of alternator one, anybody done this?
-Any other handy hints, tips?
Cheers
Jonathan
brad black
a ktm part apparantly fits, ask on the 851/888 yahoo list if you haven't been banned already.
marvin
There are two different sprags that I know about. I ordered one a few years ago and it would not fit in the flywheel, flange was different. however, the sprags themselves are the same so i just switched the spras into my old housing.
Gasket is the same as Monsters(if you have one) otherwise just use ducatibond. You should check the clearance on the front sensor although I never have as the gasket is so thin. I use an air impact to remove the nut and replace it. I think it was Speedmade who cautioned against using an impact to tighten the nut, can crack the aluminum alternator magnet housing. Be sure and use grease to hold the thrust washer in place (behind flywheel/sprag)when re-assembling.
Sidestand bracket is in the way of cover removal, I just loosen, remove one bolt and swivel out of the way. Check the small ball bearing in the cover while you're at it.
Pretty sdtraight forward.
p.s. I have always gotten away with just replacing the sprag. If the sprag mating surface is a little rough it seems to work better anyway.
hindsight
jr60 wrote-Planning to use a clutch holding tool instead of alternator one, anybody done this?
Done this several times. Some people have reservations about doing so, but I had no problem. Use the clutch holding tool to loosen the nut, and you can use a penny in the teeth of the the starter gear to assist re-installation.
I'm interested in that report that a KTM part fits.. the sprag in my 888 is on its' way out too..
spike
i did the same as marvin and got hold of a sprag from some other duke car,nt remember and just swaped the sprags and spring , mine was a little worn !!!
spike
p.s got it off ebay for nowt really a few quid
jr60
Thanks for the info so far guys, had a quick look on net.
Anybody tried this method of shortening the spring (provided it doesn't look like Spikes!);
http://www.mad-ducati.com/Technical/StarterSpragClutch/SpragClutch.html
Also found somewhere that says it the same as;
"Here's my tip; WHEN your sprag clutch explodes, don't go to Ducati - it's common with a Borg-Warner auto gearbox part and costs sod all from an autobox supplier."
Anybody got an actual part# from a more modern Ducati that would fit?
griff851
The sprag clutch is the same part that is on a bevel. On a bevel you just turn it around the other way as the motors spin in the opposite direction. So basically the same part has been used for 20 years.
Griff
jr60
OK, this is getting interesting if as Griff said its the same as the bevel - have found that the following;
Bevel-twins sprag clutch: Rover car part number is 22A716. Please note that the outside diameter of the cage that holds the segments together needs to be turned down to 65.5mm.
900ss, 906 Paso, Pantah engine starter sprag clutch: LC4 Freewheel bearing KTM Part No.58440026000. I just fitted one of these to the 906 Paso project, and it cost less than half the price of the original Ducati part.
And a link that has SKF bearing for the same now if we could find the part number!
marvin
IMHO don't bother trying the "shortened spring trick" It only works for a short while because the spring has lost it's "umph". I tried it three times before I finally wised up!
There is supposedly a spring from an oil seal that would be a new spring and might be worth a try. Still a gamble unless you like tearing the bike apart often.
mikesps
From the Paso group....
I haven't tried it myself.
>Here is the detail from Chicago Rawhide:
>Seal part number CR 19778
>This seal is for a 2" (50MM) shaft so the spring that is inside the seal is what you need for the starter sprag. I have yet to make this repair myself. Just going by the research that I have done in "preparation" for this one day.
hindsight
jr60
According to this guy the spring in that seal is too wide:
http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~peer/Duc/duc-spragSpring.html
Still trying to get the part # for the SKF one:
Found another link to a US site that sells them for Bevels:
http://shop.bevelheaven.com/detail.aspx?ID=67
If can't source the part number before I take it out will bring it along to local bearing place to see if they match it up.
Mr.R
[QUOTE=jr60;11637
If can't source the part number before I take it out will bring it along to local bearing place to see if they match it up.[/QUOTE]
Hi Jonathon,
I was about to suggest that after just seeing your post on Ducatisti UK.
The KTM part needs to be played about with before they fit.
My mate Swampy of Marsh Performance (KTM Tuners) supplies them to Ducati owners for around 1/2 the Ducati price, but he does alter/jiggle them around beforehand.
Many years back now when I worked as a Duke mechanic on the old Bevels. We used to use a British Leyland part and reverse the rollers as it worked in the opposite dirrection.
I'll also 2nd what Marvin has said...
It doesn't seem to mater if the outer race shows a fair bit of wear, so I wouldn't bother buying anything other than the bearing if I were you.
Steve R
jr60
Cheers Steve
If I can't source the SKF bearing might get one of the KTM ones, do you know how much they are?
Think the BL part is from old rover v8 auto gearboxes which were Borg-Warner I think and mentioned in a previous post.
Jonathan
Mr.R
Hi Johnathon,
KTM prices have just risen so I couldn't get an exact price as Swampy was busy, (I've just phoned him) but they were about £48.
Steve R
greenmonster
Mailed Bevelheaven:
Hi!
A friend claims that this bevel sprag
Starter Sprag Bearing * SALE *
0799.50.195
also fits newer 90`s Ducs w the spring sprag and also works better!
True or false?
Rgs
The a bit too short answer:
Early belts yes these fit etc - better? Do not know that.....
But maybe something to look into?
Bevel sprags do look sturdier.
jr60
Cheers Steve, around £48 doesn't sound too bad.
When I get the old one off (need to borrow an impact driver, b*st*rd nut won't shift) will bring it to local bearing place to see if they can match it up, guy seems sure he can. If not will go the ktm option.
Jonathan
Ducman851
Hmm, Ive "repaired" 2 sprags with the CR spring and had no issues. Ive also dont the shortened spring method. It will work in a pinch if you "need" to ride but it wont be the end all.
fastening
spraghetti clutch
Hi,
I recently changed out my sprag clutch on my sp4, I was advised to replace the starter ring at the same time but on inspection everything else looked OK apart from a very loose spring around the sprag, I used a sprag from a 748 that I picked up from a breakers with under 5k miles on it (starter motors also fit).
Didn't use gasket as there is only sealant used.
As for the flywheel nut I have a air gun so no problems taking the nut off but tried various methods to lock it to tighten it up, i didn't like the idea of jamming things between the gears so finally resorted to using the air gun again, I don't know the final torque but it's stayed on up to now!
It's all back together now a starts like a dream (for a ducati) I had also changed out the starter motor earlier because it had fallen apart, probabaly due the amount of use trying to start the bike with a knackered sprag.
just a quick question: where the seat assembly fixes to the rear sub frame is there a packer or something between the seat and sub frame as mine sits down on the aluminium and is rubbing agains the rear light?
regards
Andy
Mr.R
Hi Andy,
Isn't it funny how most of the Jocks seem to be called Andy???
I like a lot of the other lads use rubber hose on the alloy sub frame to give the rear light some clearence.
But I'm using a QB Carbon/Kevlar rear seat unit.
Steve R
