P8 ECU in an 851

Seadweller

I've read that the P8 allows for finer tuning, more specifically, rear cylinder correction that can lead to a better running engine and more stable idle.

Anyone done the swap? Is it straight plug-and-play?

griff851

Pretty much. Although if your doing it just so you can offset map, i’ve never found a need to get that critical. Does give you a better range of available EPROMs when doing mods. P8’s were fitted to many vehicles. Guzzi’s, fiat’s, Ferrari to name a few. If you do get a one, open it up and look for black burn marks, they have been know burn out one of the bank of cylindrical electronic do hickies, but a stereo repair shop can change them for a couple of bucks. Other than that they’re pretty bulletproof.

Seadweller

griff851 wrotePretty much. Although if your doing it just so you can offset map, i've never found a need to get that critical. Does give you a better range of available EPROMs when doing mods. P8's were fitted to many vehicles. Guzzi's, fiat's, Ferrari to name a few. If you do get a one, open it up and look for black burn marks, they have been know burn out one of the bank of cylindrical electronic do hickies, but a stereo repair shop can change them for a couple of bucks. Other than that they're pretty bulletproof.

Thanks Griff...So essentially, if I were to source a new one, I could simple remove the current P7, plug in the new P8, and I'm done? No adjustments or other chip changes necessary?

griff851

Fueling. 851 is not 888. So an appropriate chip would be needed. Brad is your man on that.

Seadweller

griff851 wroteFueling. 851 is not 888. So an appropriate chip would be needed. Brad is your man on that.

As I expected...Thanks for the confirmation! I'll ping Brad....

marvin

I have one that is in need of repair

A P8 that is.

hindsight

Seadweller wroteI've read that the P8 allows for finer tuning, more specifically, rear cylinder correction that can lead to a better running engine and more stable idle. Anyone done the swap? Is it straight plug-and-play?

Well - here's a question that I've been meaning to ask for a few weeks now. During lockdown, I've been building a new ECU for my 944 Bimota DB2SR, running open source ECU software. It works just fine, and is fully open for tuning via a USB or Bluetooth connection (though due to lockdown related issues, I can't roadtest it until I get the bodywork back from the paintshop that has been closed for several months.. 🙁)

It is completely plug-and-play, with no modifications required to the bike (though, other work that I've done on this bike has required the injectors to be changed, but that's a different thing). The final part of this particular puzzle is getting the fuelling and ignition properly dialled in (which I'm no expert in, but I'm making progress there).

The next step of this project of work will be to produce a IAW-P8 (&P7) compatible prototype of the same (I'm only choosing P8, because I've got two bikes running P8's that I can use to test, but the same principles could well apply to the 16M of later bikes).

Would anyone be interested in such an initiative?

Mike

hindsight

marvin wroteI have one that is in need of repair A P8 that is.

Hi Marvin - what's the symptoms of the issue with it? - if Seadweller doesn't want it, I may be interested for bench testing what I was talking about in the last post.

Mike

marvin

hindsight wroteHi Marvin - what's the symptoms of the issue with it? - if Seadweller doesn't want it, I may be interested for bench testing what I was talking about in the last post. Mike

I don't really know. I was told that it had intermittant issues, bike quitting. He replaced it and said it was fixed. ??

Looks like new inside.

All of the resistors and other components look good. I can see no broken or dry solder joints

Seadweller

Thanks guys...I actually bought a brand new P8 that I stumbled across for what I thought was a very good price, so I don't require one. I really bought it as a back-up in case my P7 were ever to go bad. I went with the P8 over the P7 after reading that the additional functionality would result in an even better running engine.

Brad informed me that the P8 is indeed plug-and-play. The factory 888 Strada setup does not have any correction for the vertical cylinder mapped, so it essentially operates like a P7 with a small variation at closed throttle. Brad said it's only worthwhile if you can make and modify eprom's to fine tune it.

Brad's recommendation was to put a PCIII on it and have someone do a custom map with the second cylinder. Spark advance map changes can also help them, but a good second cylinder map will make a real difference. Evidently, there's not many folks doing eprom's as it seems to be a lost science.

I wonder if there's an 851 eprom available for the P8 ECU that has the proper map changes to take full advantage of the P8's capabilities? If there was one, I'd buy it. I'm really not interested in going the Dynojet route.

marvin

A few years back Ducati North America was selling off 851/888 parts at closeout prices. I bought a couple of P8's then for less than a hundred bucks each (if I remember correctly)

Seadweller

marvin wroteA few years back Ducati North America was selling off 851/888 parts at closeout prices. I bought a couple of P8's then for less than a hundred bucks each (if I remember correctly)

Yeah, that's about what I paid for mine. I was floored to see some of the asking prices on eBay!

hindsight

Seadweller wroteI wonder if there's an 851 eprom available for the P8 ECU that has the proper map changes to take full advantage of the P8's capabilities? If there was one, I'd buy it. I'm really not interested in going the Dynojet route.

I've never done it before, but I've got the equipment to be able to do this. If I had your 851 chip, I could probably read it and get the ignition/fuel tables, and load them onto a P8 chip.

Happy to give it a go if you like, but it would require that you send me your chip..

Mike

Seadweller

hindsight wroteI've never done it before, but I've got the equipment to be able to do this. If I had your 851 chip, I could probably read it and get the ignition/fuel tables, and load them onto a P8 chip. Happy to give it a go if you like, but it would require that you send me your chip.. Mike

Thanks for the offer Mike...I may take you up on that! My 851 has been situated for long term storage in my office. I assume that would be a stock mapping from my existing P7 eprom? I wonder how I'd determine the specs for the vertical cylinder mapping everyone raves about?

marvin

Seadweller wroteI wonder how I'd determine the specs for the vertical cylinder mapping everyone raves about?

Bungs welded in your exhaust for O2 sensors and a data logger like the one from innovate motorsport is one way (The only way I know !)

Mr.R

When I 1st built my big bore/stroke 851 I welded on Lambda sensor stubs to the full 50mm Spaghetti system, they really did the intended job whilst on the dyno.
...and with the P8 I fitted both cylinders were mapped individually.
Well worth all the time and effort in my experience, mapping each cylinder separately made a noticeable difference/gain in overall performance and smoothness of the finished article.
There's quite a bit of difference between the front and rear cylinder maps and this was with equal length header pipes.

Steve R

hindsight

Seadweller wroteThanks for the offer Mike...I may take you up on that! My 851 has been situated for long term storage in my office. I assume that would be a stock mapping from my existing P7 eprom? I wonder how I'd determine the specs for the vertical cylinder mapping everyone raves about?

Yeah - I'm pretty sure I can take whatever you have your bike running on at the moment, and transplant it onto a 888 chip image (I've just checked the software for doing so, and should be absolutely fine). That said - I also suspect it would run with a 888 Strada chip if you wanted to check that the ECU was functional first.

I suspect that step #1 would be to get the P8 working, then it can be fine tuned with the assistance from someone with a Dyno and wideband O2 sensors if necessary.

Another alternate - if you know anyone locally with EPROM reading gear, then you can have the chip read, and email the bin file over to me, and I'll have a look.

Either way is good for me.. just let me know

Seadweller

Thanks again...I'll do a bit of due diligence on my end. I really won't be able to test the P8, as I fully pickled the bike several weeks ago. Changed all fluids, fogged the cylinders, cleared the fuel tank, etc. It's been set up for long term storage, and it'll likely be several years at least before I revive it. It's currently sitting in my office.😱

I have to imagine that someone has developed an 851 eprom, for use in a P8 ECU, with the proper fueling, ignition and vertical cylinder mapping that would take full advantage of the advanced capabilities of the P8 ECU.

marvin

[QUOTE=Seadweller;74830

I have to imagine that someone has developed an 851 eprom, for use in a P8 ECU, with the proper fueling, ignition and vertical cylinder mapping that would take full advantage of the advanced capabilities of the P8 ECU.[/QUOTE]

Yes, someone has probably done that. BUT, it will only be close. Close is not close enough IMHO. Every bike is different.

Seadweller

marvin wroteYes, someone has probably done that. BUT, it will only be close. Close is not close enough IMHO. Every bike is different.

Agreed, I guess in order to really achieve the full benefits of the upgraded functionality, you'd have to fine tune it to each individual bike. With that said, I think getting somewhat close with regards to the cylinder offset would still provide some benefit, given that the P7 lacks that function.