851 brake lines/fittings

acace

I am restoring a kit bike and removing aftermarket braided brake lines and colorful anodized fittings to replace with original hoses. I have sourced an NOS set of front brake lines but am having a difficult time finding the union between the hose and caliper/distribution block. The threads on the caliper side are 10mm x1, but I have not been able to determine the thread on the hose side. It have tried 10x1, 10x1.25 and 10x1.5 unions but none thread correctly. Does anyone know what the hose threads are? Better still, where I might find correct unions?

thanks in advance

wgsvintage

Should be M10x1.0. Is it possible the original manifold block was changed with the aftermarket hoses? Correct parts are still available thru a Ducati shop. Manifold # 079654174 and banjo bolt # 81540011A.

wgsvintage

The third hole on the manifold is for the 079654116 brake light switch, also available.

acace

wgsvintage wroteThe third hole on the manifold is for the 079654116 brake light switch, also available.

Thank you for your reply. The brake lines and manifold on a kit bike are considerably different from a Strada, 888, etc. The manifold only has three holes and the hoses do not have standard ends that accommodate a banjo bolt. The attached photograph shows the hose and its fitting to a caliper. The fitting on the manifold end is the same. I am looking for the union between the hose and the caliper. Five required. Ducati part number is 81540011A. Maybe Brembo has a p/n for this?

wgsvintage

acace wroteDucati part number is 81540011A.

The Kit parts manual drawing (TAV. 20) and the part numbers listed for TAV. 20 drawing do not agree. That p/n you show (and from the Kit parts manual) is for the banjo bolt shown in my post above. I can't find any other Ducati brake hoses that didn't use the banjo bolt set up, except those early Tricolors. Maybe for liability reasons they went right back to banjo bolts. Possibly this "union" is the part you want? Both ends are male M10x1.0.

https://store.bevelheaven.com/Fasteners-Kits/Union/

acace

wgsvintage wroteThe Kit parts manual drawing (TAV. 20) and the part numbers listed for TAV. 20 drawing do not agree. That p/n you show (and from the Kit parts manual) is for the banjo bolt shown in my post above. I can't find any other Ducati brake hoses that didn't use the banjo bolt set up, except those early Tricolors. Maybe for liability reasons they went right back to banjo bolts. Possibly this "union" is the part you want? Both ends are male M10x1.0. https://store.bevelheaven.com/Fasteners-Kits/Union/

My kit bike is one of the very earliest and uses those hoses in the photograph. I noticed that the part number I mentioned was the same one you mentioned after I posted. You are correct, I need the union. I have determined that the hose ends are not 10mmx1 so the Bevel Heaven union will not work. I have tried 10x1.25 and 10.5 as well, but nothing seems to thread correctly or deep enough to lock the fitting to the union.

wgsvintage

As best as I can now research, the 851 Tricolors were the first production Ducatis to use braided steel brake lines. The '88 Kit, Strada, and Lucchinelli Replica's all used the non-banjo type hoses like yours. The '89's then went with banjo bolt type hoses, and they never looked back, so no parts support except what was on hand. Me and my buddy Mike, who has taken over the ownership/rebuild/restoration of the pre-production 851 Kit Adamo race bike are very interested in your brake line project. Mike thought he had an old set of those brake lines, but they didn't turn up. We are thinking now that the female fittings on the hose ends are a JIC type fitting. You may need to take your hose to a good hydraulic shop or a good auto parts store to see if you can find a known male fitting that fits it properly. I'm now guessing you'll need a fitting something like the one in the Goodridge link below. Can you post a good close up picture of the inside of your female hose end? That might help identify it. Where did you find a set of those old hoses? Good score!

https://www.goodridge.co.uk/products...nt=34153353863

griff851

Do they look like these?
The bottom has been cut off the fit in an 08 caliper.

griff851

Or this type with female?

wgsvintage

Thanks Griff, but as I understand it, something like what you show is the missing part. One end has to be male M10x1.0, but we're not sure what the hose end of it is.

acace

Gentlemen - thank you all for you comments

Griff - Yes, this is the union (or similar to) I am looking for. As mentioned earlier, I am certain the threaded end of the hose is not 10mmx1 although it IS a 10mm hole. Your fittings show two different conical sizes - I am not sure which would be appropriate. I have attached a photo.

WGS - Indeed, my kit bike is one of the very first ten built. I have taken the hose to a shop that specializes in hydraulic fittings and we did not find anything that worked and they had a very large selection of unions. The closest we found was a British thread (not whitworth). The union threaded most of the way but never locked the hose in place. The NOS hoses I found were actually on the Italian Ebay site. Still sealed in the Cagiva plastic. I think my next step is to try to measure the threads.

griff851

Now Funnily enough I have the same issue with a couple of Mirage fighter (French so it's metric) 3mm engine oil feed lines and a hoses fitting similar to your caliper end, and the second male/male pic I posted. Screws in but does not engage the male bell end in the female by a couple of mm. That is quite possibly what your looking for. The fact is I have no idea where it came from, but it could have been from the bike shop. In which case the probability increases.

I'll measure it up and let you know what it is. If you can get an inside measurement with a set of vernier calipers, then take a mould with wax or play doh, you'll be able to measure the pitch. Thread gauges make it easier but.
If they're close enough, I can draw it up and you can get some made. You can't have mine as it's just become worth more than bitcoin. 😁 And I only have 1 🙁

acace

griff851 wroteIf they're close enough, I can draw it up and you can get some made. You can't have mine as it's just become worth more than bitcoin. 😁 And I only have 1 🙁

Thanks Griff! Seems silly that a $4 part brings a restoration to a grinding halt . . .

wgsvintage

It makes the most sense to me that it would be one of the JIC standard threads, #02 is 5/16"-24, #03 is 3/8"-24, and #04 is 7/16"-20. You did try those fittings at the hydraulic shop, right?

Mr.R

Many years ago now, I worked at a bike shop that used to make up Goodridge brake hoses for whatever...
The ends on your hoses were known as swivel ends and were used in conjunction with adaptors, like the parts that you need.
These had a thread to suit whatever calipers you were using and then a JIC thread to attach to the swivel on the made up hoses.
I have the same sort of set up on my '79 900SS bevel*, back then we thought this was superior to plain banjo fittings.
*I've got AP Lockheed calipers with an adjustable ratio AP Lockheed Mastercylinder, with complete Stainless Steel Goodridge hoses on the "Old Nail", they've worked a treat for almost 40 years now!

Steve R

acace

Sounds like we may be narrowing the threads to JIC - seems plausible anyway.
WGS - I don't remember if we tried that at the shop, but could have been the "weird British thread" he tried.

Some further research also shows that part number on an F1 Montjuich! I had a Laguna Seca a while back and don't remember the bike having those fittings.

wgsvintage

Steve, Yes, I've been using Goodridge components to make hoses for years now, all top quality stuff. I'm sure they make that mystery part.

acace, FYI, I order my Goodridge parts thru Carolina Racing Supply.
http://www.carolinaracingsupply.com/index.asp

wgsvintage

Opps, I see now that Falloon says that the production '87 Santamonica F1 did come with braided steel brake lines. Well, what ever, Ducati is now pretending like those adapter parts never existed - just banjo bolts.

acace

wgsvintage wroteacace, FYI, I order my Goodridge parts thru Carolina Racing Supply. http://www.carolinaracingsupply.com/index.asp

Many thanks WGS - time to make a few phone calls.

griff851

My adaptor is M10x1mm pitch both ends. which is standard for fit into a caliper.
Attached is to UNF thread chart. JIC is a standard not a thread and changes to UNC at dash 17. Where dash is 16ths. -3 =3/16, -4=4/16 etc. also a BSPP (straight not tapered), as you can see 1/8 is 9.6mm
I had a look at the goodridge catalog attached is what they have.
You really need an inside thread diameter to know what your dealing with when you talk to the guy at Goodridge.
The other people would be Earls, as Earls and Goodridge are not compatible.