freqrider
Well, I breathed new life into the 888 and today I finally breathed more life into her! I was proud of myself for getting her back together and operational all by myself! But... She seemed a little tired and sluggish from what I had remembered. Granted, I put the Ducati down and rode supermoto for ten years exclusively, which feels totally different. 100mph on a supermoto feels insane compared to 100 on the Ducati, which feels like you're cruising. But she just didn't feel that quick anymore? I took it upon myself to delve into the mysterious art of fuel injected motorcycle tuning! Armed with TunerPro software, an xdf file for a Moto Guzzi with a P8 computer, a bunch of .bins from the 888/851 forum, a chip burner and my ass for a dyno, I ventured into the unknown. I learned to modify xdf's, burn chips, change fuel/ignition maps. I experimented with delta maps taken and interpolated from 748R's, 996Sps' and 888SP5's. I tried this mod and that mod, all with varying results. I started with the Euro chip versions and teeaked them to allow for my exhaust/airbox modifications. The 038B eprom seemed like the most logical starting point. I ended up adding 3% to the fuel map from midrange on up. I removed the dip midrange as well. She seemed to run quicker but I sensed something was not right? The bike seemed to go flat at just over 6000 rpms, just when she's really supposed to start cookin'! It's like I hit a wall at 6500 rpms and It didn't want to go any farther! Then I noticed something. The 038U chip (USA model) had a different ignition advance map than the Euro models! The fuel table was negligably different, with slightly less fuel at idle and cruising speeds, undoubtedly to meet emmision/noise restrictions. With less drastic increase in spark advance off of Idle, I decided to base my new eprom from this original 038U chip instead. After all, it is a US Spo! I think Steve R. mentioned 5% overall increase on the fuel map did the trick for open pipes/airbox mods. I went 6% overall. I have to say, this was a huge improvement over my previous attempts at tuning the bike! She now revved freely up to 10 grand with little effort! Whole new experience! No flatness no walls, just pure acceleration/exhilleration! I undoubtedly have much more to learn about tuning these beasts, and it wouldn't have been possible without the generous help from everyone on the forums! One valuable lesson I've learned? Sometimes you just have to go back to the basics!
griff851
Well done that man. Cool fun hey, just learning as you go along.
I have an fim box i strap to the tank and you can tune on the go. Although stopping and pushing buttons has less "woe, that was close" moments that you tend to get while riding.
What you are searching for in the motor is the creamy zone. Lean is harsh and really raw. Rich is boggy, doughy towing a chute sort of feel. Its a process of starting at the rich end and going leaner, then coming back a bit towards rich. You should be able to feel it noticably as you are now aware of. The rich end of the creamy zone is a pretty good place to finish up. There shouldnt be any farting when you shut of the throttle.
freqrider
Yes, I beleive I had gone too rich with the 038B + 3% up from midrange. I was experiencing that boggy feeling you describe. The 038B untouched didn't really do it either, being aprox 7% over stock? I went 10% over stock since the FIM UM031 I was running before seemed to work, and it was about 10% over up top. So I thought? Backing it off a bit surely did the trick! Never ran better since I've had her. I plan on getting her on a dyno soon and developing a nice delta map for her. She deserves it!
Marcoboxer
Loving this thread, I'm soon going to be embarking on the same journey. Marvin helped out with a chip to get me going, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to want to tinker with it once I've ridden the bike a couple of times.
Any suggestions of chip burners and where to obtain chips etc? And I'm guessing I'll need a Windows based PC to play this particular game.
rgds
Mark
freqrider
I use the Genius G540 programmer. Cheap on ebay, about $50.00. You want the 27C256 eproms, also on ebay. If you plan to experiment with maps, I suggest an EEPROM 27ST256 or 512, which is electrically erasable. Nice if you're making lots if changes. Note that when you burn a 32k file on a 64k (512) chip you need to offset the buffer by 8000. This places the data on the last portion of memory, which is where the data needs to be. I got 10 eproms for $16.80 and 2 eeproms for $10, shipping included! Make sure you use the eprom puller to remove the chip from the ecu, lest you want to bend the pins! 😉
I actually did this all on my Mac g4 ppc running virtual pc. TunerPro and the Genius software worked fine. I'm sure if you have a modern mac running windows via bootcamp/parallels it would work even faster/better.
freqrider
Go for it!
johnboy888
I've never heard of TunerPro before, so I downloaded it, imported the 038B.bin file, then scratched my head a lot !
So, it seems I need a definition file, where do I get one of those from ?
Thanks
John
freqrider
Well John, that question left me scratching my head for over a year. So... I finally came across one from guzzidiag website for P8. I then modified it slightly and posted it in Files forum for all to enjoy. Your're welcome! 😉
http://www.ducati851and888.com/showthread.php?8713-P8-xdf-file-for-TunerPro
Btw. The temp, altitude, trims are not correct, I beleive, but fuel/delta/ignition maps are good to go!
johnboy888
Thanks !!, but I get invalid zip file error :-(
Can you re-post the file please ?
Thanks
John
freqrider
johnboy888 wroteThanks !!, but I get invalid zip file error :-(
Can you re-post the file please ?
Thanks
John
Fixed the file. should be ok now.
Chris
Thanks for posting Freqrider, must be very satisfying to go tuning and curing your fueling/running problems in this manner. People nearly always go the rolling road route, spending a fortune but still not achieving the results they were after. I was lucky that someone had already spent a long time setting up the fueling on mine otherwise would've gone a similar route to you I guess. I was always one for reading tailpipe exhaust colours and doing plug cuts in the old days, more on cars, which would be thought of as crude/looked down upon today I expect. I had a good friend in London (England) who knew the system inside out as it's basically the same as Lancia Integrale/Ferrari F40, (I'm sure you know) but he passed away before I got my 851.
freqrider
I know what you mean, Chris. It has been very satisfying. The cans I have were 40mm that I converted to 50mm by cutting off the reduced end and using a band of stainless steel. (Still clamped, haven't welded it yet!) So they were attached to my stock header before being attached to the spaghetti header. The bike was rich with the FIM chip and the stock header. The cans had a thick black soot to them. Now, with the bigger header and widened cans and my custom chip, the cans have a nice grayish brown tint on the inside 😉
I do have a few .xdf files for the 851 if you care to delve. Depending on what eprom you have, I may have the file for it?
Chris
That is kind of you, and will bear in mind for the future. Mine has been rebuilt at great expense by the looks of things and am happy to just ride for the time being.
