My two favorite street Ducati's

MarkT

wgsvintage wroteI'm having trouble making that mental leap Mark. One was done on the computer and the other was the last of the ones done in the shop by hand. There has to be similarities because of their intended purpose, but I like to think of the 851/888 series as being totally unique in style, with character to spare. Although, the very first generation 851 style, like the one I'm working on now, I can only describe as clunky - but loveable. Bill

Bill-

I agree- when I first looked at a D16 in pictures I was only struck by how I thought it looked a bit bloated- more Orca whale then shark- not like the 888 which is organic but lean. But now that I have the D16 and my 888 race bikes side by side I can feel with my hands (years and years of restoring 356 Porsches) the similarities --which now I now can see with my eye.

Yes---Probably 3D solid on a screen to to begin with but once clayed on a mockup the true character lines were embedded in.

Griff-

My feeling is that the GP bike (and D16 since is a "sort of" copy of the 2006 bike) designers were not the same ones who designed the Pani-- just my gut feeling. I see too many strong character lines on the Pani that seem to segment the bike into different parts. The GP bikes appear to me more organic and flowing as the 888 did- I want to run my hand over it. In bevel terms to me the Pani has the hard lines of the MHR tank, and the D16 has the softer lines of the SS tank.

While the 851/888 and D16 are my favorite street Ducati's -- my all time favorite fairing is found on the early MHR- just wonderful-- especially near the bottom of the front opening!!!! But the tank and seat clashed with it and damps my enthusiasm for the bike-- much prefer the balanced design of the S and SS.

And yeah-- I have to admit that the rear of the D16 seat looks like the street guys came in and stuck it on just before production

I am glad that the overly rich enthusiast did buy these because when they found out that the D16 was not as much fun for them to ride as -say a Multistrada- they dumped them at a great loss so us in the lower economic rung could stretch and buy one.

And while I greatly prefer the D16 on the track (it is a hoot on every track I have been on-- boomer or technical) it is also fun on the street since it is your wrist that controls it. I would say most of the street liter bikes like the BMW and the ZX10 are just as fast- it is just stiffer then most street bikes- and you get used to it and actually want that stiffness.

But it is not an everyday street bike in any measure-- I have my 851, or my /2 BMW R80 conversion for that. For days on the slab riding with my Harley friends I have-------- a red 2004 Goldwing- there I admitted it. But I love them all.

wgsvintage

That old Ducati tee shirt that just said "your bike sucks", probably boils down the way everyone on this forum feels about everyone else's. While your choices have some merit Mark, they're simply not as good as mine. Don't you love it when you're absolutely crazy about the bike you rode in on?
Bill

MarkT

wgsvintage wroteThat old Ducati tee shirt that just said "your bike sucks", probably boils down the way everyone on this forum feels about everyone else's. While your choices have some merit Mark, they're simply not as good as mine. Don't you love it when you're absolutely crazy about the bike you rode in on? Bill

Yeah- Bill- -I love it! -wish it on every rider-

------Just felt the need to make my pitch-

motalia

for STREET use:
900 Superlight
Multistrada 1200 S Touring
Monster 1100S (pre-EVO version)
okay that's three bikes....

ps: I cant see how anyone would bike the D16'RR as a good STREET bike - aweful! 😳

Viper1

MarkT wroteOK I am totally biased - but these are my two favorite street Ducati's and wanted to see if anyone on the forum agrees with my belief the D16RR is the most honest evolution of the original 851/88 series of 4 cam bikes that Ducati has offered the public. To me the designer's of Ducati's GP bikes get the whole organic curve thing I love- the street bike designers are into the sharp edges that make me think of insects. Today I was re-fitting the bodywork to my '90 black bike (basically a '91 Corse for the street) after installing its new motor when I looked over at the D16s and wanted to put this out there to hear what you guys think about this premise. The curves of the bodywork- the way the accent line on the tank which echos the 888 tank -- I could go on and on. Like to hear your opinions-- I realize that many have not seen one in person - just know it is like seeing a fresh original 851 or 888 which to me is always a revelation how stunning they were/are. Ahhh---How I was able to end up with a D16RR for the track and one for the street is another story but it will be familiar to any of you have given up one or two machines you still lust after to get the current machine(s) you are losing sleep over. Just so you do not think I am slacking- I am also including a picture of the frame to my SP2 that I am restoring back to stock- hope it turns out half as nice as a "Previously unloved SP3" that Mr Jafa is winding up very nicely---

Very nice....only one problem I see......the 851 isnt red ?:P) I would agree with your thoughts though!

Diesel

Have ridden quite a few, including D16 and the latest Pani. Nothing comes close to the 998R on the street and track. Ducati lost direction after 2003!!!

Agree with the 888 and D16 visual comparisons. I see it every time I look at my 888 😁

TipsyNipper

Balz,
definitely agree the Superlight for the street, with correct sprocket combo and genuine Tremi's..sheer magic,
Pat

marvin

motalia wrotefor STREET use: 900 Superlight Multistrada 1200 S Touring Monster 1100S (pre-EVO version) okay that's three bikes.... ps: I cant see how anyone would bike the D16'RR as a good STREET bike - aweful! 😳

I guess it depends on your definition of "street". In California with all of the traffic/towns, etc. I would agree with you. Around here is a different matter. It also depends on whether you can handle a "race bike" with it's baggage or just want something that runs, idles, can take stop & go traffic. etc.

mrc.engr

motalia wrotefor STREET use: 900 Superlight Multistrada 1200 S Touring Monster 1100S (pre-EVO version) okay that's three bikes.... ps: I cant see how anyone would bike the D16'RR as a good STREET bike - aweful! 😳

Few get the opportunity to ride the D16 on the street to understand it's merits there. Mark lives in a are where his "street' would be called a country road by many....in fact it is a country road.

mrc.engr

wgsvintage wroteThat old Ducati tee shirt that just said "your bike sucks", probably boils down the way everyone on this forum feels about everyone else's. While your choices have some merit Mark, they're simply not as good as mine. Don't you love it when you're absolutely crazy about the bike you rode in on? Bill

Love the Adamo helmet Bill.

motalia

Diesel wroteHave ridden quite a few, including D16 and the latest Pani. Nothing comes close to the 998R on the street and track. Ducati lost direction after 2003!!! Agree with the 888 and D16 visual comparisons. I see it every time I look at my 888 😁

In my opinion the D16, of which I have ridden many and unfortunately worked on even more of them, are horrible Street bikes and even on the track they require quite a few modifications before they work reasonably well.

The 998R is a fine bike but realistically, in stock form the 996R is superior due to better torque from the longer stroke engine. While the short stroke engine of the 998R may have a higher potential, with the stock or Ducati Performance ECU the rev limit is the same as on the 996R and the 998R's performance is inferior to the 996R. Only with a modified ECU with a raised rev limit can you reach the higher potential of the 998R.

But then there is the 748RS... Unreal!!! Other than a 250 GP bike, the 748RS is hands down the best handling bike I have ever ridden - and the airbox intake sound it makes is simply out of this world!!!

However, none of these bikes really are all that good for street riding, even on country roads. They are uncomfortable and by the time they come into their own, you go stupid fast on public roads.

I do agree though that Ducati lost something after 2002, the last year of the Tamburini bikes.....

mrc.engr

So we're back to a proper 888SP for a great street ride..... 😉)

Personally the bikes that get the most miles in my group are 94 M900 with 11:1 & flatslides and a very gearheaded 80 CBX special.

marvin

motalia wroteIn my opinion the D16, of which I have ridden many and unfortunately worked on even more of them, are horrible Street bikes and even on the track they require quite a few modifications before they work reasonably well. The 998R is a fine bike but realistically, in stock form the 996R is superior due to better torque from the longer stroke engine. While the short stroke engine of the 998R may have a higher potential, with the stock or Ducati Performance ECU the rev limit is the same as on the 996R and the 998R's performance is inferior to the 996R. Only with a modified ECU with a raised rev limit can you reach the higher potential of the 998R. But then there is the 748RS... Unreal!!! Other than a 250 GP bike, the 748RS is hands down the best handling bike I have ever ridden - and the airbox intake sound it makes is simply out of this world!!! However, none of these bikes really are all that good for street riding, even on country roads. They are uncomfortable and by the time they come into their own, you go stupid fast on public roads. I do agree though that Ducati lost something after 2002, the last year of the Tamburini bikes.....

I'm a bit confused here. You don't like the 998R because it has a short stroke but you love the 748! Doesn't the 748 also have a short stroke?

I too like the long stroke of the 996 but absolutely love the short stroke of the S4RS engine (not quite stock) in my 851. AT around 7K it has a huge hit and carried through all the way to 11.5. The 996 "tweeked" is probably just as fast but not nearly as much fun for me.

I guess if I lived in CA I would just get a Vespa for stop light to stop light riding.

motalia

?????????? Read my post again and then tell me where I said that I didn't like the 998R?????????

I would get a Vespa for stop light to stop light riding anywhere in the world, not just in CA. 😝

If you are trying to diss CA roads you may want to try some out first. From where I live, twisty roads are about 10 minutes away. I grew up in the middle of the Alps and have done a lot of riding there. The riding here in CA is every bit as good or better with less traffic. And almost all of it is year round riding. No wait, I lied, it rains about 10 days of the year, I don't ride when it rains.

Mr.R

Calm down boys it's just a discussion after all. 😎

I personally now live in a very rural area but have also lived in cities inc' London, (the biggest and busiest one we have in the UK) when I lived in the cities the 1st thing I wanted to do when riding big bikes inc' my Ducati's (I've owned Ducati's non stop since '79) was to get out of town.
For me Ducati's have never been city bikes, city riding is something that sometimes has to be endured, but not by choice!

So back to the original question...
Outside of town you'd have to go a looooong way to better my 851/916cc '92 bike or my '79 900SS based special.
They both have perfect manners, lots of bottom end power with a good top end rush, sound like "Armageddon" and look as cool as F'ck!
Where ever I ride them they're always the centre of attention.

Edit...Just read Mark's next post, the later shaped 851/888's do indeed have some similarity to the lines of the D16RR.
Whilst I'd love a D16RR in my stable, I'd choose a "Pukka" 888/926 or 955cc long before I parted up up cash for one of those.
Just my personal choice, Oh and I love the longer stroke of my 851/916 the torque/grunt is something else when compared to a 851/888 or 926.

Steve R

MarkT

motalia wrote?????????? Read my post again .

Motalia-

Please except my apology for this thread turning into a discussion about which model Ducati we love the best and then defending those choices and some even adding in negative opinions about Ducati's that a few of us own and love😁.

This was never my intent of the thread.

Because this is an 851/888 forum I should not have been titled it "My two favorite street Ducati's.

My intent was buried down in the FIRST sentence of my original post-----

" wanted to see if anyone on the forum agrees with my belief the D16RR is the most honest evolution of the original 851/88 series of 4 cam bikes that Ducati has offered the public."

Everyone seemed to miss it even though in my post #16 where I tried to steer the thread back--

"Anyone wish to agree or disagree on my premise that the D166RR has the strongest family resemblance to the 851/888 than any other street legal Ducati?"

My second fault was to post a picture of my black 851 along side of my street D16 because it is my only street 851/88.

Hopefully this picture with one of my red Corse's along side of the D16 will more clearly show what I was asking about--- and no problem if anyone does not see this resemblance.

I respect your opinion about the D16 for the street but for many of us it is the most fulfilling street bike we have or currently own! It is a hoot to ride.

"ps: I cant see how anyone would bike the D16'RR as a good STREET bike - aweful! "

I respectfully disagree--Although I do not owe anyone an explanation -I feel I have to give some background since you preference the expertness of your opinion by saying

"In my opinion the D16, of which I have ridden many and unfortunately worked on even more of them, are horrible Street bikes and even on the track they require quite a few modifications before they work reasonably well."

In short I have been riding, wrenching on, and restoring sport bikes (mostly 888 Corse's) on the street since '67 (first bike in '64) and on the track for about 17 years (avatar is me in '96).

My opinion of the D16 is a bit more nuanced then yours-if you have been riding long enough to know how you like your bikes to handle, know a little bit of suspension set up (yes the D16 is sensitive to ride height and tire selection- I installed BST and 211 GPA's but think the Q3 will be better on the street), have open roads and spend enough time to understand the bike, it is a great street bike. I have friends who have over 17K miles on their D16's- and we all love the stink out of them.

Yes it is a qualified opinion but I have spent many many hours on the street and on the track on these bikes so I feel my opinion is worth at least two cents.

For my track D16 I installed the Nemisis traction control system and use NTEC slicks. The D16 is interesting to work on with everything packed between the cylinders- but no issues. I almost got to buy the Desmo tools from a dealer that dropped the Ducati franchise and put them on EBAY- but an owner in California got them so I know where they are-- valve check coming up.

As far as Marvin's comment------I agree with you- there are many many great open roads in California and I have ridden a number of them. I believe Marvin was reacting to the fact that many bike owners live in big cities like LA where riding out to those roads involve very dense traffic which makes for very uncomfortable riding on any sport bike let alone a D16 which can achieve some pretty high water temperatures fairly fast- even when speed under 45 mph.

The last picture is the road out of my driveway.

Because text often sounds the way the reader interprets it- I hoping you see nothing in the above that will get you spun up.

griff851

I wouldn't worry about apologising for the thread Mark. Its not a bad one. Points for trying to keep it on subject, but half the fun is in the wandering.
Beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder, and as such no bike is better than another. Thats why they still sell bloody Virago's. 😁

However a major point has been raised here that has erkked me for some time. For a place such as CA, the 5th largest economy in the world, a place of a fair amount of land, a place that has fairly major bush fires every year, a place that has been written about in songs, a place that never has rain... Where the hell does all the water come from huh????? And don't give me any rot about canals. Bloody trees are in forests not on the side of canals. God damn pisses down here, we have 22 million people, and are always running out of water. Something funny going on over there, what aren't you telling us.... whats the secret???

Oh and one more thing, can one of you US citizens please tell your gov and glorious leader to stop fucking around with the world economy, its starting to piss a few of the other inhabitants of the planet off. And makes you look like a bunch of useless pricks that really don't have the right to wield that much power. No offence meant to any individuals, I do understand politicians are a breed unto themselves.

motalia

Mark,
it takes a lot more to get me spun up, but thanks for your level headed words. I do enjoy a good discussion though.

In regards to the D16RR, your last post actually validates what I said about the D16. It does require quite a bit of modifications to make it work decent. The 996R and 998R, however, are nigh on perfect right out of the box. Yes, I do like the 998R almost as much as the 996R.

I am a bit biased against the D16, since as the only certified D16 technician in the San Diego area, I have had to work on too many of them and they are just incredibly finiky bikes. Many of them have one issue after another, many re-occurring issues, and working on them is not exactly a pleasure either. They just were not designed as a production bike that needs to be worked on and serviced in a dealership shop environment, but a race bike that gets completely torn down after every race event. I am glad for you that you managed to get a D16 that doesn't give you troubles and you can ride the piss out of it.
I give you this though, once I hear it running and feel its intensity, I almost forget about all the issues. It is incredibly visceral!!

Now, to close the circle, there is one other bike that feels just as visceral to me as the D16, that sounds different but every bit as good, and that has this intense feel of raw performance. That bike is the 888 SPS!!!!!
But to the original point of this thread, a great STREET bike it isn't. There are many better models for that application.

Now let's go watch how the D16 will perform at Sepang ...... 😯

motalia

motalia wrotenow let's go watch how the d16 will perform at sepang ...... 😯

boooooommmm!!!!!

wgsvintage

griff851 wroteHey Mark, both are nice looking machines hey. Both say Ok, time to go fast now. Both have presence. But personally, you can't beat serious steel for that really raw look. My favourite.....the endurance racer. So its not fair for me to comment as I'm tainted from a different time. 😁 But I have anyway.

This is for you Griff. Phil Aynsley posted this on the Bevelheads list, and I immediately remembered your post on it here. Must be because this bike is one of my absolute favorites too. You know there are also some really nice pictures of it in Cathcart's "Untold Story" book, right?
Bill
http://www.philaphoto.com/imageLibra...um=1722&page=1

« Previous Page Next Page »