Classic TT Build

SpeedTherapy

The Build Prep

Hi Folks

So... after much deliberation, a couple of weeks ago I took the plunge and handed out the notes for a 1992 SP3 (http://www.ducati851and888.com/showthread.php?5946-Classic-TT"]see link) 😎

I rode it a few times... she was rough at low revs, the brakes were crap but the handling felt good and she pulled like a train over 6000. She's fast. Nothing fell off or broke so we're off to a good start 😄

Then I was off travelling again (mostly for work). On the road I ordered some bits. It was like Christmas when I got home on Thursday night... Santa Claus left quite a few packages. More on the way. Thanks to all that have been in touch on and though the forum - indispensable. Now the credit card is getting damaged... big time.

Just read on the Classic TT website that the Formula 1, 2 and Formula Classic race had over 120 entries. They will only allow 90 or so... sincerely hope I get in. No reason that I shouldn't be accepted... other than it's just me and a modest old stock bike and not an all singing and dancing big-budget team. Hey... the fact that I'll be on a beautiful Ducati should be enough to get in 😉

This weekend the conversion from a very neat 'n tidy, collectors road bike to a Isle of Man racer begins. First thing to sort are those awful brakes. We're gonna turn those Brembos back into Brembos...

Ciao

Paul

https://www.speedtherapy.co.uk

ducati dad

Good luck Paul, keep us upto date with your progress. I hope you're one of the lucky 90.. 😁

Mr.R

Hi Paul,

The SP3 is a '91 model, the SP4 was the '92 model.
Looking at your collection of parts, it reminds me of the old days when lads would ride their Goldies etc to the track, remove the road parts, race, replace the road parts and then ride home after.
I'm guessing that at least you'll be taking it over in a van?
Good luck chap and please keep us up to date on how it's all going.

On another note the only chain that I've broken on my 851/916 was an RK race chain, but it had done quite a few miles/was past it's best.
I think for the Mountain circuit I'd have spent a few extra bob and forked out for a DID ERV3 Race chain, they're stronger and lighter than the RK chain, Renthal or Afam alloy rear sprockets are lighter and tougher than the Talon kit also.

Steve R

griff851

Just wondering what are those pads made of Z04? Just mentioning this as before my old discs were retired, I ran sintered pads to see what happens. Bloody hell they pulled up well, however they also machined the disc, just a bit hard for the cast iron. I have have good set of rotors if you need them if this happens.

stafford

Good luck with the build (still not sure about using the SP3 though) assuming you do a track day shake down, let us know when and where.

hauge

This is interesting.
I wish you best of luck.

Pompey

+1 on the trackday plan... I was also looking at that sp3 for ages trying not to buy it from Made in Italy? Glad you took the decision out of my hands! Keep it up and fingers crossed for the cut.

Pompey

2nd thoughts a track day wont check your suspension settings or gearing. A thrash around the hills somewhere is what we need. No time limit, no costs except petrol and minor risk of a ticket?😏

SpeedTherapy

trying to get this post right...

SpeedTherapy

The Start

This weekend I cleared the bench and got the SP3 onto it for some lovin...

First up were those heinous brakes...

Filthy!

Disgusting syrupy-snot brake fluid.

Iron discs are still good... but rivets or even the carrier may be worn. Need to get them refurbed.

With the brakes all clean, fresh brake fluid and some new Brembo sintered pads... the brakes were proper again. I test rode the bike on Saturday afternoon. A world of difference and loads of stopping power now :-)

SpeedTherapy

The Start ... continued...

I also started taking off some bits I don't need...

There is mesh on the front fairing intakes, but some muppet put more mesh and sponge in the air-pipe (is this standard??). Not much air flowing through there!

Non-standard stickers on second-hand bikes normally hide damage. Pity. I like carbon.

First 'TT Proof' activity. Stainless mesh on the rads.

R&G toe guard is pretty chunky and doesn't give enough required coverage over the sprocket for different gearing choices... It'll go back on Fleabay soon... out with the grinder...

Made a proper coverage toe guard from some 50x100 ally box section. Maybe not a pretty as the R&G one (still needs some angles to it) but nearly 50% lighter, adjustable and will get me through skrootineering :-)
Still got to drill 'n tap the swing-arm to fit it.

The box of bits I don't need is starting to fill.

Coolant is nasty to race-tracks. Drained and system flushed. Replaced with regulatory plain old water.

I didn't get through as much as I wanted... with all road bikes, once you take things apart, there's a whole cleaning to be done. I spent most of the time with the bike just looking. Figuring things out. Seeing what I need, what I need to change, what bits I need, how things work on this old machine and working on problems I need to solve.

The most used tools of the weekend were my eyes and measurers.

Despite being 21 years old, she is generally in really good nick. I am impressed. I hope her innards are as good as her shapely outside. There's still a shit-load of work to be done on her...

Ciao

Paul

https://www.speedtherapy.co.uk

griff851

Looks like the carrier is worn, which is the common issue. Hard to get. Steve R has drawings for them I think. Be warned after the race the the rotors will be finished. Sintered pads are going to eat item. I took mine for a 300km road flogging and they were below limits when I got home. But yes they do pull up rather well, as good as any modern radial set up.
We use demineralised water for the track, plain old tap water is asking for corrosion.
Are you whipping off the heads and bumping up the compression?

stafford

May have some decent carriers on a set of worn discs.

SpeedTherapy

griff851 wroteLooks like the carrier is worn, which is the common issue. Hard to get. Steve R has drawings for them I think. Be warned after the race the the rotors will be finished. Sintered pads are going to eat item. I took mine for a 300km road flogging and they were below limits when I got home. But yes they do pull up rather well, as good as any modern radial set up. We use demineralised water for the track, plain old tap water is asking for corrosion. Are you whipping off the heads and bumping up the compression?

Hi Griff

Hmmmm... I've never user iron discs before and looked around the Brembo website and internet for some pointers on pads. Couldn't find anything at the time so got these sintered pads. They are awesomely fierce!

Thanks for the tip of them chewing the discs. Makes sense. Not worth destroying the discs. I think I have a set of 'still good' brembo stainless discs off an Aprilia I can use. Should be okay from a regs perspective... they are basically the same thing. Just different carrier design - I think. Will need to check. Replacement discs are also available (Serie Oro).

Not sure if my engine man will bump the compression up... I'll see what he thinks. Reliability is key. No good having 135bhp if you're sat on the side of the track. This year the objective is to get out there and finish... then maybe develop the bike for next year. We'll see.

Ciao

Paul

Mr.R

Bumping the comp' ratio up on a SP3 by skimming the heads won't give you 120+ rwbhp in a month of Sundays chap, 135 rwbhp is only going to happen in your dreams unless you spend a awful lot of cash and time.
Who's building your motor, is he completely stripping, blue printing and rebuilding it before the MGP?
I know that I would be if it were mine or I was preparing it for anyone else.

Steve R

griff851

I had chat last night to a mate who has his own shop. He's been doing a lot of R&D due to his interest in racing. Compression: there comes a point where the energy needed to compress the charge starts to reduce the effect of having the higher compression. It seems that for these engines it's under 12.7:1 He also pointed out that there is shit loads to be gained through ignition maps and can timing, but you have to play to find it. He's talking 15hp + on a standard 916 with 45 mm headers and a power commander.

Mr.R

Chris Steedman aka CJS who used to post on here gets 118 rwbhp from a blueprinted/lightly modified using only standard parts 916 Strada/Bip.

Steve R

griff851

Old mate's is punching out 124@11500 and the engine has never been apart, except for a leaking head gasket. And it's not the dyno as he has used 2 different ones.

Pompey

Remember this is the TT lads, not Santa Pod. Set up, handling and reliability is key. BHP is no good if you cant lay the power on early and tip her in with confidence. Your life is at stake and a race to be finished. Imagine taking that much risk for 2 laps then blowing a motor over the mountain?

Hatman

Paul:

I'm not a big fan of running 20-year-old cast iron rotors on the racetrack. Nor would I (or virtually anyone) recommend running sintered pads with CI rotors -- they're way too aggressive and will put a ton of heat into the rotors, which could lead to the rotors cracking and ultimately failing. At the very least, as others have pointed out, they'll eat through a CI rotor in fairly short order. If you insist on running CI rotors, get a set of organic or carbon pads.

The carriers on the rotors in your photo certainly look worn. There should be some axial (fore-aft) play, but not much. The aluminum carriers are softer than the buttons, so the carriers are the part that wears. new buttons won't help in this instance.

My favorite brake rotors are Brake Tech ductile iron rotors, although I found them to be very "pad sensitive" and only work well with one specific pad. They're also very light. A nice lower-cost set-up is a set of Brembo stainless "snowflake" rotors as found on later 996s, Monsters, etc., fitted with a set of STM or TPO full-floating buttons. You can pick the rotors up for $200 or less, and the buttons are around $160, so you have a set of quality race rotors for about half of what a set of Brake Tech rotors cost. With a good set of pads (I'm currently using Performance Friction pads with good results), I think you'll be impressed with the braking performance. A key element, in my opinion, is replacing the stock MC with a Brembo GP master cylinder.

This winter, I went through much of what you're currently doing prepping a 93 888 SPO for racing this season. PM me if you have any specific questions and I'll be glad to help if I can.