oldrider57
Hello out there in 851/888 land. Just want to introduce myself as the newfound owner of a 91' 851 Strada. Just acquired the bike a few days before the new year. Not really sure of the bike's history, but for the most part, it appears to have been well taken care of.
Bike has 15,000 miles and it appears that its only been lightly down on the left side. All panels are OEM without any visible signs of having been refinished, and the tank is absolutely gorgeous!!
Just spent several hours over the weekend and then today pulling the tank off to install new Samco hoses. Also have new plug wires on order (Nology) along with new timing belts. Just wanting to baseline it back to as new condition before I consider modifying.
Also, was able to place an order with Spiegler for new lines (all 4) along with new rear rotor and pads. Rear rotor has some pretty good grooving to it.
Just listed a "wanted" post in classified for a correct airfilter lid to replace the one that's all chopped up. Am assuming that cutting the top out of the OEM unit pretty much destroys any sort of forced-air intake.
As always, would appreciate any advice for what to look for on this bike. Have been around Ducs (some) before, but just want to do this bike right. It's really cool to look at and can hardly wait to ride.
PS, one of the previous owners had purchased a set of high-mount carbon canisters. Have installed them but need to know what or how to correctly set the injection system up correctly. Anyone know of where I can find the correct chip for this style of set-up (or do I even need one?)
Sorry about the long post, but up until today wasn't able to do anything on the forum.... And oh yes, I'm in love with this thing....... Pat
griff851
The forced air system wasn't really forced, more providing cooling air for the rear cylinder and cool air for the intake in the early bikes. The common Airbox mod will actually allow more air and provide better performance than the "forced air". Later on in race machines at the end of the 888 series the airbox was sort of "pressurized" It is an interesting time in engineering and well worth a read. as they progressed from the 3 piece C/F airbox with space everywhere to allow access for as much air ingestion, to a closed in airbox as seen on 748 and 916. At one point they even had variable velocity stacks.
A common mod on the 888 is 3 large holes in the top. There is even a frame that holds the airfilter in place, no lid.
Griff
glenn Twite
Pat,
Welcome aboard there mate,
As I have mentioned before the 851 & 888 are absolute sex on wheels, always were & always will be, you just have to believe 😄
Sorci851
Hi Pat,
Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on the 91 851. As with any newly acquired Ducati, the basics should be checked so that you know for yourself that they are in good order. The typical ares are (but not limited to):
1. check the valve clearances and adjust accordingly.
2. install fresh cam belts (the ones with red lettering - kevlar only).
3. change out the antifreeze with motorcycle specific antifreeze (adding a bottle of Water Wetter wouldn't hurt either).
4. due to age, replace all of the coolant hoses. You will likely have to go through Samco because the stock hoses are difficult to find.
5. replace the spark plugs. You can index the spark plugs for a tiny bit of increase in performance if you are hypercritical like me. Be careful with Nology plug wires; some people have had incompatibility/imbalances in their spark systems with Ducatis. Ducati guru L.T. Snyder doesn't recommend Nology wires for Ducatis. There's nothing wrong with the stock plug wires as long as they are within the range of resistance tolerance.
6. replace the fuel filter. The Napa 3032 filter is cheaper and easier to find if you don't have a local Ducati dealer.
7. due to age, replace all of the fuel lines including inside the fuel tank with fuel submersion resistant fuel line.
8. remove the alternator cover (only with the special cover removal tool) and check the 30mm alternator nut for proper torque (this nut can loosen with expensive results).
9. change the engine oil (BelRay 10w50 V-Twin synthetic oil provides a good temperature range), and inspect the oil screen tube for metal shavings. Metal shavings could mean that the crankshaft oil galley plug has worked loose and is be ground down as the crank spins.
10. change out the brake and clutch fluid. Keep a pitcher of water in arms reach in case you spill some of the brake fluid on a painted surface. in such a case, you can quickly pour the water over the spill and it will neutralize the brake fluid, saving the painted surface.
11. check for leaking fork and shock seals.
12. check steering head bearings for slopiness, notchiness or restriction.
13. sychronize the throttle bodies.
14. adjust the CO level to 3-4%.
15. if you are only running an aftermarket exhaust and no airbox top, a stage 2 chip would be fine. Further modifications will benefit with a custom programmed chip.
Anyway, this list is what immediately comes to mind. Other members may be able to fill in the blanks more.
Thank you,
Justin
Sorci851
hauge
Wellcome to the list!
everything you ever need to know (about the bike...) you´ll find here.
Cheers
Thomas
Sorci851
Hi Pat,
An important detail about the cam belts replacement just came to mind: Always install new Fuji locknuts any time the belt adjusters are loosened or removed. Reusing these nuts is risky because they may not hold as well as a fresh Fuji locknut. These nuts run about $7 at desmotimes.com so its cheap peace of mind.
oldrider57
Wow!!! Can't (already) thank you guys enough. This is where I'm at with replacing or tuning the bike.
Just finished installing my new Samco hoses along with actually checking the thermostat for operation (amazing how hot 150 degree water is when you spill some on your hand). Am somewhat bummed about the Nology plug wires??? Already have new NGK Iridium plugs (although I'm unable to get the horizontal plug to thread well). Had figured on replacing the fuel lines already, and was just able to pull the filter and those lines out of the tank. Had ordered new timing belts from my local dealer, would imagine that the ones Ducati sells are the best to use???
Was just able to find out that the OEM airbox lid is still available from Ducati, but the rear rubber horns (what you fasten the long air-injection hoses to) are not.
Am about as anal as they come, if I want to index the plugs, what direction should the plug electrode point to?
What would you guys recommend for anti-freeze? Is the Blue-Ice a good product?
Just placed an order with Spiegler brakes yesterday AM. All new brake and clutch lines along with replacing the grooved rear iron rotor with a modern one which of course means new pads as well.
Have also ordered up a new 42 tooth Renthal rear sprocket. What chain would you recommend? Have seen where the 15 front with 42 makes a very user-friendly combo. Bike will only be used for Sunday morning rides, no racing...
And finally (just received the cam locking tool in the mail today) I'm going to attempt my first valve adjustment on my own. If I find it's something above my capability I've already talked with my local Duc shop's lead mechanic about bringing the bike in for him.
On this previous note, do you suggest any change to clearances or advancing the timing (had seen info about +4 degrees???).
Anyway, it's still around 8-below zero here in Alaska, and have plenty of time to square this bike away. Would say that the hardest aspect of already owning this bike is finding a dealer who has some NOS parts lying on their shelves. Look forward to hearing comments and feedback many of you have. Thanks again..... Pat
oldrider57
Recommended airbox mod
Okay, might have responded to most questions I had, but just reread the post by griff851 pertaining to the history on airbox mods.... So what seems to be the most widely used method of getting air into the cylinders? Are you guys cutting the top out of the stock box and then just cable tying the air tubes somewhere near the rear of the box? If you wouldn't recommend closing up the top of the airbox, I'll call and cancel the order I just placed today for a new top. Also, am running carbon high-mount exhaust canisters, should I be running a richer chip? All in all, just want the bike to run well and accelerate smoothly without possibly damaging anything......Pat
PS, even though I'm in the States, I have absolutely no problem with dealing with Duc experts World-wide....
griff851
I'd cancel the order if you want it to breath. And yep, secure the hoses some how. Generally the carbon cans and high flow air filter/no lid, need to run about 5% richer than standard.
By the way welcome.
Griff
apr250rs
I have cut the front top part of my airbox lid out. I retained the clip hold down lugs. The back has the tubes still attached. I also chipped it to what I believe makes it 5% richer. I haven't run it yet as I'm in Massachusetts and it's snowy and cold. Started it up though and I can already tell it breathes better by the throttle response. I have high Termi's that are open. I called Ferracci and he still will make a chip for my 92 but I picked one up from Jasper (BSS6 FIM). They go for about $150 unless you can find one used. It will run lean if you go with the open airbox and open exhaust with the standard chip.
Mark
Mr.R
Hi Pat,
I was told years ago by some Ducati tuners/specialists to only cut 4 large (2+1/2") holes in a diamond pattern in the aibox top, but I'd already seen the genuine SP lids and had some experience racing/tuning other makes of bikes, so I cut off the complete lid, then shortened the hoses and pointed them up under the front of the tank.
This set up* worked very well when using a chip with the standard map +5% along with some straight through cans.
John Hackett (Possibly the most successful Ducati tuner in Europe) of JHP/Ducati Coventry UK still supplies these chips for around £30 each.
Reading the last post by Mark has me recalling a test, where they found that there was a performance gain with the standard airbox/lid simply by just removing the hoses.
*This set up flowed enough air for my 851/916cc to make 116 rwbhp@9,500rpm, this was on a conserative with a small 'C' dyno that saw genuine 888SP4's making 110 rwbhp.
Steve R
Sorci851
Hi Pat,
When indexing spark plugs, basically you want the spark from the spark plug to be exposed to the air/fuel mixture entering the cylinder. The idea is to position the electrode opposite of the intake valves so that the spark is not "shrouded" to the air/fuel mixture. I believe that Jeg's carries thin copper shims that you can place at the base of the spark plug threads in order to get the spark plug positioned just right when it fully tightened in the cylinder head. I have replaced/indexed a lot of spark plugs (I work on cars for a living), and I simply swap spark plugs to different cylinders to get the position correct. To keep the spark plug unshrouded to the intake valves, you have up to 180 degrees of rotational margin - the spark plug electrode doesn't literally have to be exactly opposite of the intake valves. There is a 180 degree sweep on the exhaust valve side that the electrode can reside on while still keeping the spark plug exposed to the intake valves. you may be wondering by now how you would know where the electrode is when it is tightened in the cylinder head. There is a simple method: take a Sharpie felt pen, and draw a line up the ceramic portion of the spark plug that is inline with the electrode. Tighten the spark plug in the cylinder head, and take a flash light and a dentist's mirror and look in to spark plug well to see where the black line is - that is where the electrode is. If the black line is anywhere within the sweep of the intake valves side, then try the spark plug in the other cylinder and see if it lines up better. Overall, you will not gain much horsepower wise on a motorcycle engine, but the engine with run happier. By comparison, on a large V-8 engine the indexing can gain 2-3 horsepower on the dyno, so we are talking about a 1% gain in horsepower on a car engine. The gain is mainly in the smoothness felt form the greater ignition efficiency. There are Champion spark plugs that do not have an electrode at all, rather the spark shoots across to the edge of the spark plug well, so these spark plugs are always indexed (assuming the spark happens to always arc to the intake side), but they are also expensive relative to other spark plugs.
Thank you,
Justin
oldrider57
Really, really appreciate the very constructive suggestions. Just talked with my parts guy today about possibly canceling my airbox top order. Am hooking up with him tomorrow because my new timing belts have arrived along with new sprocket. Will try to make contact with Ferracci in the next few days. Was able to also see that they also recommend cutting the top out, so will stay with the setup I already have and focus on obtaining a new (correctly fueled) chip for my ride...
Really nice that so many of you offer your own personal background info about these bikes. Can I also assume that many of you are (also) over 40? 😝
Will keep in touch, but for right now I have more than enough to work with for the next several weeks.
Pat😝 😝 😝
RWG
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