SP3 Engine Number Question

tubbylad

Newbie looking to own and participate not just observe form the sidelines.
Looking at two SP3's.
Both are tatty but touted as originals.
Question is around engine number digits as one has 5 the other has 6.
How many numbers should follow the W4*
Thanks
Martin

AndrewS

tubbylad wroteNewbie looking to own and participate not just observe form the sidelines. Looking at two SP3's. Both are tatty but touted as originals. Question is around engine number digits as one has 5 the other has 6. How many numbers should follow the W4* Thanks Martin

Hi Martin

I have an SP3 (verified as genuine by the factory in Italy).

The engine number takes the following format:
ZDM888W4*xxxxx* - this number is stamped on the engine block.
The frame number is like this:
ZDM888S*xxxxxx* and DGM******M - both these numbers are on the headstock.
In both cases "x" represents a number.

Hope that helps, and good luck with a purchase, they're great bikes.

Andrew

tubbylad

Thanks for the feedback.
Can anyone comment regarding 5 or 6 digits being country specific I.e *xxxxx* being Italian market, *xxxxxx* being UK market perhaps?
If engine can have 5 or 6 digits and still be legitimate that would be helpful to know too.
Meantime I've emailed Ducati...

dudlington

tubbylad wroteThanks for the feedback. Can anyone comment regarding 5 or 6 digits being country specific I.e *xxxxx* being Italian market, *xxxxxx* being UK market perhaps? If engine can have 5 or 6 digits and still be legitimate that would be helpful to know too. Meantime I’ve emailed Ducati...

Concerning the engine number NO , nothing specific to U.K. or spec. The only difference were for chips for different markets , however these can easily be changed so are not a guarantee, Concering the frame number (Which is more important), Ducati around that time did not make a series of Frame numbers specifically for the U.K. market either , the U.S.yes (But not all models) as that was a big market for them. Australia had an extra plate welded over the original frame with their own series of numbers and possibly some other countries outside of Europe. At that time Ducati did what they did and nobody really stopped them , you got what you got so bikes in the U.K. had km speedo,s , EU Headlamps , early nose fairings on later bikes who was checking, or controlling ?????? They did not even have a connection with the sequence of frame numbers and the top plaque (????).......NOW THAT WAS IMPORTANT (SP2 yes but SP3 NOT !!!! Why ?????).................................There is not even any logic of frame numbers to Engine numbers (?) .All SP3 Ducati,s were made in Italy in one factory and shipped out. The Homologation code under the chassis number) should be DGM528390M and the six digits after ZDM888S will be in the range of 400 and something to 1000 and something as a general rule. Yes there were only apparently 534 made and this does not seem to make sense but in between were SPS and some race bikes and some specials. I know this as I have spent hundreds of hours doing research. I made this list for SP3 (and SP4) as asking the factory is like asking my 2 year old daughter. They make a lot of mistakes for a number of reasons so good luck on that one !!!!!. If you give me photos of the chassis numbers I can tell you if they are genuine , BUT I will not give out my list ............in case anybody thinks of asking !!!!.

griff851

Can I have your list?
Ducati was an interesting company back then. Management issues etc. They basically gone bust and been bailed out. The production system was tragic compared to modern thinking. Someone the forum zonks ago, after a visit to the museum and a good chat to curator (some bloke whose name started with L), realised the records of production were lost or burnt or something.
On the floor, they're getting what ever bits they can, battling supply issues, trying to pump out bikes to keep them solvent. Examples are race rods, cranks etc turning up in road bikes, Frazers sent a barrel load of cranks to the scrap yard as they just appeared from Italy i've been told. I've seen them use at least 30 workshop manuals for packing in a parts order etc.
Out of the chaos came order, (Buddhist quote from the story of monkey! 🙂😉, and Uncle Sam. The 916 rose like Excalibur from the lake, production quantified, and away they went.
There was a Magazine article titled 'The 888, the fogotten Ducati, no wonder, they threw heaps of it out! 😁

dudlington

Griff

Sorry the list is just for my amusement. It is not finished but there is enough indicators to know where a bike falls. When I see another bike for sale I add it to the list. I know that the plaque number to frame number to engine number is all over the place. I sold a chassis number and matching engine(Because it was mangled together) that I was sure was a UNICORN of an SP3 SPS but Ducati could not verify and I did not have a Top plaque so sold it. What was it worth , well............... there is a good question ????. One day that might be complete and for sale but good luck selling it and getting a good price for it without a letter from Ducati verifying it as a genuine UNICORN. It is a shame that the factory cannot be trusted with their information........................ however I am happy to help with SP3/4,s if someone needs to verify a chassis number.

AndrewS

dudlington wroteConcerning the engine number NO , nothing specific to U.K. or spec. The only difference were for chips for different markets , however these can easily be changed so are not a guarantee, Concering the frame number (Which is more important), Ducati around that time did not make a series of Frame numbers specifically for the U.K. market either , the U.S.yes (But not all models) as that was a big market for them. Australia had an extra plate welded over the original frame with their own series of numbers and possibly some other countries outside of Europe. At that time Ducati did what they did and nobody really stopped them , you got what you got so bikes in the U.K. had km speedo,s , EU Headlamps , early nose fairings on later bikes who was checking, or controlling ?????? They did not even have a connection with the sequence of frame numbers and the top plaque (????).......NOW THAT WAS IMPORTANT (SP2 yes but SP3 NOT !!!! Why ?????).................................There is not even any logic of frame numbers to Engine numbers (?) .All SP3 Ducati,s were made in Italy in one factory and shipped out. The Homologation code under the chassis number) should be DGM528390M and the six digits after ZDM888S will be in the range of 400 and something to 1000 and something as a general rule. Yes there were only apparently 534 made and this does not seem to make sense but in between were SPS and some race bikes and some specials. I know this as I have spent hundreds of hours doing research. I made this list for SP3 (and SP4) as asking the factory is like asking my 2 year old daughter. They make a lot of mistakes for a number of reasons so good luck on that one !!!!!. If you give me photos of the chassis numbers I can tell you if they are genuine , BUT I will not give out my list ............in case anybody thinks of asking !!!!.

Just as a follow-up to @dudlington's post, my SP3 has a UK (mph) speedo but EU=spec headlight!

I did check with the factory, but I'll e-mail you pictures of my engine and chassis numbers for confirmation if that's alright?

Andrew

JImmySL

AndrewS wroteJust as a follow-up to @dudlington's post, my SP3 has a UK (mph) speedo but EU=spec headlight! I did check with the factory, but I'll e-mail you pictures of my engine and chassis numbers for confirmation if that's alright? Andrew

I may be wrong but I do remember hearing from somebody with knowledge of such things that all SP models left the factory with Kmh speedos and euro continent spec lights as although sold through some UK dealers there was no UK market specific designated SP model. Moto Cinelli / Dealers swapped them over in house (or didn't) :-) My particular bike was imported and sold by Baines, and still has the euro spec candle *ahem* "headlight" my MOT man has a roll of insulation tape just for me ;-)

AndrewS

JImmySL wroteI may be wrong but I do remember hearing from somebody with knowledge of such things that all SP models left the factory with Kmh speedos and euro continent spec lights as although sold through some UK dealers there was no UK market specific designated SP model. Moto Cinelli / Dealers swapped them over in house (or didn't) :-) My particular bike was imported and sold by Baines, and still has the euro spec candle *ahem* "headlight" my MOT man has a roll of insulation tape just for me ;-)

My MoT man used to do that, but now says that as I'll just remove it as soon as I get home, why bother! Not as if it's going to blind anyone...