SP2 running lean below 5000 rpm

fnqal

Hi guys
have recently purchased an SP2 that has been off the road for a couple of years. Took it to my local ducati shop to check valves, change belts etc and it was found to be running lean below 5000 rpm (approx 18-19% air fuel ratio) Above 5000 rpm it is fine. The mechanic is unable access the ECU with any of his programmers to check things out. He thinks that there is possibly an aftermarket chip installed and this is the reason he can't communicate with the ECU. Does this sound reasonable? I will bring the bike home and check for myself if there is an aftermarket chip installed or not, I've already spent way too much money at the bike shop! If there is an aftermarket chip installed, are the genuine chips still available? Or is there a possibility that the single injectors working below 5000 rpm are blocked or faulty due to not being used for a couple of years. If this were the case, wouldn't it also affect the mixture over 5000 rpm when the second set of injectors cut in? I have read that there is a trim pot next to the harness connector on the ECU, could this be used to richen the mixture? Any help/comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

dudlington

Your problem could be blocked injectors. I had a similar problem which turned out to be blocked injectors. Something that is eay to do is to remove your air filter and lift up the tank then look at the spray pattern when running the bike . You should have a nice mist all the time if your injectors are working properly. Obviously that mist spray gets more as you apply throttle and the second set of injectors cut in, but you should in the lower revs see the first set working , if not then you have blocked injectors from the new fuel and sitting around unused for too long. In my case I could see in the lower revs my injectors were blocked but on higher revs fuel only dribbled out but kept it running if throttle was applied . I took out the injectors and cleaned them which can be done in a number of ways , I did it with a 9V battery to open and close the injector and connected up a can of carb cleaner after leaving them to soak in acetone overnight , you will see them improve from before and after. The difference was immediate after running up the bike afterwards. New fuel is a killer even on pressurized fuel injection systems when the bike is laid up too long. If this does not work then you could simply buy another chip to test as they are not expensive and easy to replace. Of course check your plugs are clean as well and correctly gapped.

Ube

There are no software with a diagnostic socket for the bike, each component must be individually tested.
To see that eprom mounts you must open the control unit behind the lid positioned downwards.

I attach a jpg with the code eprom for your bike

That said, the trimmer of the co is external to the control unit, the screw on the side and with the hot engine a value of 18% is too high, it must be around 4.5% 5%

an expert in australia is http://www.bikeboy.org/contact.html you can try to contact him, original eprom or replicas are easily found but I can say that this is not the problem, the more likely it is a sensor, airbox air, it gave me similar problems.

fnqal

Thanks guys
you have given me a few things to follow up on. I will let you know how things progress after I return home from work in a couple of weeks time.
Ube
just to clarify, are you saying that there is no software program available to communicate with the P7 ECU?
Thanks

Ube

fnqal wrotejust to clarify, are you saying that there is no software program available to communicate with the P7 ECU? Thanks

no, with the translation in English I often change the meaning of the phrases, I apologize

The meaning is: there is no modern diagnostic system, linking it reveals where the error is.
The 8xx series is equipped with a primordial and mechanical injection system, where it is necessary to take empirical steps to detect the malfunction.
But since it is such a system, usually the eprom is the last cause of problems to be investigated, probably dudlington right about the causes

fnqal

No apology needed Ube, thanks for your help

brad black

the ducati p7 eproms didn't have enabled diagnosis i'm told, whereas the guzzi ones did. so you can't get any info out of them

i'd suspect the injectors first up if its' been sitting. i'd also check the fuel pressure to make sure it's good.

the big issue with them is the std red or black injectors are too small. you can bump the fuel pressure up by drilling out a plug in the reg and adjusting it - 3.5 bar will help.

fnqal

Thanks for the reply Brad. The fuel pressure was checked and showed 50 psi (3.44 Bar) I will physically check the injectors as suggested below. If the injectors are found to be the problem and are beyond repair, are the red or black top injectors still available? Are the green topped injectors a direct replacement?
Thanks

brad black

fnqal wroteThanks for the reply Brad. The fuel pressure was checked and showed 50 psi (3.44 Bar) I will physically check the injectors as suggested below. If the injectors are found to be the problem and are beyond repair, are the red or black top injectors still available? Are the green topped injectors a direct replacement? Thanks

don't think the black or red are still available new, neither are the green. green flow quite a bit more than the red/black.

fnqal

Didn't worry about visually checking the spray pattern, they were pretty straight forward to remove. Will take them in to the injector workshop tomorrow and let you know the findings/results

Mr.R

I notice in your pic' that one of the "O" rings on the top of the injectors is missing?

Steve R

fnqal

Hi Steve
yes, that O ring disappeared into a black hole that exists on my workshop floor when I popped the fuel connector off, never to be seen again! I have now had the injectors checked and they have a perfect spray pattern and flow around 220 cc/min each at 3.5 bar. I have had all new o rings fitted. Can someone tell me if the attached image of the chip is a standard looking item or aftermarket? I have also noticed that the air filter has no top cover and the hoses from the front air intakes are not connected to anything, they simply end at the base of the vertical cylinder, is this standard? The fuel regulator has also been moved from between the throttle bodies and mounted to the frame under the seat, but I wouldn't think that the additional fuel hose lengths should affect anything.

dudlington

Is the fuel regulator giving you 3.5 bar ?..........also is your fuel pump delivering enough pressure for the regulator ?.

Did you check the injectors at lower pressure ?...........Just thoughts ?????.

fnqal

Dudlington
Once again I have run out of time for further testing but I will definitely wind up the regulator to give 3.5 bar or better when I return from work. The injectors were tested at a higher pressure than the regulator is currently supplying so there may be an issue there. Do you know if the chip in the attachment below is a standard item?
Thanks

dudlington

fnqal wroteDudlington Once again I have run out of time for further testing but I will definitely wind up the regulator to give 3.5 bar or better when I return from work. The injectors were tested at a higher pressure than the regulator is currently supplying so there may be an issue there. Do you know if the chip in the attachment below is a standard item? Thanks

Chip is a Ducati chip.............however if it is standard for your bike is another question. I guess it depends on the month/year of your bike.

brad black

015 is a std sp2 eprom afaik. the general issue with them is that the injectors are too small. 3.5 bar is a good start for it, that gives it 8% more fuel across the board.

moving the fuel reg is a bit wacky.

Mr.R

Moving the fuel regulator to somewhere more accessible was something done usually for racing, to make it easier to bump up the pressure if more fuel was needed at the track.

Steve R

fnqal

Can anyone tell me if info is available some where on the expected voltage readings I should be seeing for the various sensor inputs, (absolute pressure, temperature, TPS), into the CPU so that I can check them as well?
Thanks in advance

griff851

Marelli pdf
Thank desmolele, like a gift from the gods for fault finding. Pull the ecu plug off remove the cover and go for it.

Ecu, air sensor etc type Plug pins are called junior timer crimp 15-20 awg used on heaps of car EFI, so your local auto elect bloke should have them. They have one barb. Grind down a feeler gauge to make a removal tool.

fnqal

Much appreciated Griff
I'm down in Brissie for Easter at the moment so I will study up on the manual (and my italian!) so I can check things out when I return home next week