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Thread: New member and question...what shall I put in these cases?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Lancashire, UK
    Posts
    25

    Default New member and question...what shall I put in these cases?

    Hi all,

    I'm not currently an 851 / 888 owner though I've owned both in the past. The first was an '89 851DS bought in '92:-

    Eddys_851..jpg
    1993, Paddock Hill Bend, Brands Hatch.

    For many years I didn't own a car so my bikes had to do their duty for commuting, holidays and track days. Going to work through central London on a loud, red motorcycle always felt like a special occasion. The 851 was replaced by an 888 Strada in '94:-


    Eddy888..jpg
    '94 or '95, Island Bends, Mallory Park.

    I was knocked off the 888 twice; both times I bought the salvage back from the insurance company. The second time (after the drunk driver had been arrested) I sold the remains on to John Fallon, and in 1996 I bought my 916, the first and only new vehicle I've ever owned. The 916 was run-in (!) on the way to Le Mans in April '96 and as per the previous Ducatis it took me to work, on holidays (including a trip over the Alps to watch WSB at Monza where I had a reg/rect failure...a whole story in itself) and track days (including losing the front-end at Cascades, Oulton Park). We also went to the 'Ring a few times, when the entry onto the circuit was just before the Hatzenbach section and was controlled by a guy in a shed to whom you showed your paper ticket. Some years later, after we'd moved up North I was commuting to work (60-ish miles across the Pennines) and suffered a broken belt. This resulted in a rebuild with A & G cams, SP heads and special pistons with SP-sized cutouts, high comp and 20mm gudgeon pin holes. This was combined with the Strada single injectors and an Ultimap chip. This was not a great spec - I couldn't use the extra top-end which the cams created because I was on stock 'rods, and the map on the Ultimap wasn't optimised and a huge mid-range hole, exacerbated by the cams.
    Time passed, we had a family and other projects came & went - Locaterfield road/sprint car, XT500 rebuild, R1 build and a '68 Triumph 650 rebuild. The 916 languished in mates' garages, one of which turned out to have a damp problem. When I dragged the 916 out it wasn't a pretty sight...furry fasteners and white flaky 'cases. It's now in pieces for a proper sort out, and so onto the question...what should I put in these 'cases?

    2012-04-11_10.21.43&.jpg

    I already have - full set of RHP and SKF bearings for mains and gearbox, low-mileage stock cylinders and pistons (916), 66mm and 68mm cranks, stock rods, SP heads - 34/30 valves, G/A cams, stock cams, standard and close-ratio gearsets, 45mm exhaust, carbon-fibre end cans.

    There are a lot of new chassis parts, too - Ohlins shock, new forks bushes & seals, new rear axle and wheel bearings - but that'll come later.

    I don't want and can't now afford the ultimate spec or big power. Round here the roads are narrow and bumpy so good suspension setup and a fat, flat torque curve make much more sense, so here's what I'm thinking:-

    68mm crank (with machining to timing shaft if required)
    Install new mains and transmission bearings, dry build and check end-float
    Stock rods, stock flat(ish) pistons, old-spec thick base gasket & head gasket
    Check squish and correct (second base gasket or spacer); check valve-to-piston clearance between 34/30 valves and aforementioned pistons; relieve pistons if necessary
    Stock cams set to ???-degree cam timing
    Close-ratio gearset
    Ultimap (is there anyone who can re-map these chips?) or Power Commander?

    Sorry for the ramble & thanks for reading!

    Eddy

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Lancashire, UK
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Or shall I return it to standard spec?

    Eddy

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Gothenburg, Sweden
    Posts
    668

    Default

    68mm crank will be fine. For camtiming you should check Brad Blacks webpage.
    There is probably alot of people around who can make you an e-prom for p7, p8. 1.6, etc.

    Good luck with your project
    Cheers!
    Thomas

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,287

    Default

    68mm crank, sp heads, std cams, use late thin head gaskets and stack base gaskets as required. pistons should be ok with 34/30 i'd think.
    Brad The Bike Boy

    www.bikeboy.org

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Lancashire, UK
    Posts
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    Default

    Thanks for the suggestions, guys. Some progress at last:-

    %255BUNSET%255D..jpg

    New mains, transmission and timing shaft bearing in. Got the cases good and hot with a hot air gun; the RHP mains and 6305C3 bearings dropped straight in. The smaller ones needed a tap with a medium-sized persuader.

    %255BUNSET%255D..jpg

    Next step is to mate the cases with crank, gear cluster and timing shaft in place then check & adjust the endfloat.
    Question: Which gear cluster? The stock 916 ratios, or the 748SP cluster I have?

    Cheers,

    Eddy
    Attached Images

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Cornwall S.W. England
    Posts
    5,089

    Default

    If you're using std/Strada cams then fit the standard wide ratio cluster, the close ratio is a PITA on the road and not needed unless the motor has a narrow power band with the power stacked right up at the top of the rev range.

    I'd sell the G+A cams and buy a set of 916/996SPS cams, then time these at 107/107 CL's and the motor will make stronger power with the peak coming in at under 9.5K.
    My 851/916cc motor with 916SP heads and 35/30 valves, single injectors and 50mm system, makes 128.5 rwbhp at 9.2K and it pulls like a freight train from as low as 3K.

    Steve R

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Lancashire, UK
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Steve R - thanks for the gearing advice; stock cluster it is (just as well, really - spent Saturday morning hunting high & low for the close-ratio box to no avail).

    Checked and adjusted end-float on the input, output & selector drum. Need a couple of shims for the crank to set the pre-load (new mains fitted).

    %255BUNSET%255D..jpg

    Then discovered that the 900SS crank I have been planning to use has been whacked on the timing-side end by someone using an inappropriately-large persuader and the area around the oil feed is distorted. I think it will clean up, but I need to take it down to my engine shop and get them to mount it on the crank grinder. It's the area where the bush & oil seal fit onto the end of the crank. We'll see how I get on...

    Eddy

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Lancashire, UK
    Posts
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    Default

    Zombie thread alert...!

    The 68mm crank was scrap, so I'm back to the stock 916 crank.



    Gears and selector are in, crank is in & pre-load set, primary and timing gears are installed.

    This is where I think I'm going next:-

    Trial fit pistons, cylinders & heads and check/adjust squish (I have earlier & later base gaskets, but only later thin head gaskets to play with).

    Fit and time cams, checking clearances between the 34/30 valves and the cutouts on the stock Strada pistons.

    I'd like to optimise what I have, and want to set the cam timing for the optimum setting for Strada cams (A inlet & exhaust, I think) but can't afford vernier pulleys. Is there still a source for offset keys?

    Cheers,

    Eddy

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Lancashire, UK
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    Default

    I was moving the Strada cams from the late-style drop cam bearing holders to my 888/916 style bearing holders tonight. Guess what I found? Both exhaust cams were fitted with 8-dot offset keys. Surely that's a lot of offset? Now I think about it, these cams probably came from an ST4 motor I pulled apart about 6 or 7 years ago.

    Eddy

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    West Sussex
    Posts
    109

    Default

    Hi Eddy

    Great project and I've really enjoyed following what you are doing.

    If you are ever down this way come and play and visa versa.

    Jx

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