Ducati 888SPS No.15 for sale in Holland

[Ben Bostrom]

Hello Guys,

I´ve seen the Bike last Monday and had an option on it till Today.
Unfortunatly I´ve got to let it go, because my financial position isn´t quite good enough at this moment.
But I reckon that it´s still a bargain, just ask the seller...

I told him that I´d post the Link on our Forum to help him sell it!
If you call him, please send some regards from me, Martin.

http://motoren.marktplaats.nl/motore...sp4-nr-15.html

[Ben Bostrom]

I could provide the Engine and Frame Numbers if someone is interested?
But the Factory didn´t confirm, because they didn´t match in their Books!

Just send me a PM if you still want them...


Regards,
Martin

[Mr.R]

Dare I ask if the seller's able to supply and prove the originality of the frame and engine numbers to the prospective buyers??
After recent events any bike for sale in Holland has the red warning lights flashing for me.
I can recall warning forum members on here or another 851/888 forum how easy it would be to build a replica and pass it off as the real deal some time back and at that time was told/harranged with the retort "Why would anyone bother, the parts would cost too much?"
Well I think what I warned about is coming home to roost, now that folk are prepared to pay BIG money for a late SP model.
I'd seen this situation coming after seeing what was happening with the roundcase/Greenframe 750SS's, there's a lot more of them about than the factory ever made!
I've seen C/cases with the OEM engine number machined out (Not off but a pocket was machined into the cases with a perfect plate with a new number fitted into the space) and you'd really have to know what you were looking at to tell the difference.
I was asked to rebuild one of these motors, but refused because I won't encourage the thieves/con artists.

Steve R

[marvin]

Dare I ask if the seller's able to supply and prove the originality of the frame and engine numbers to the prospective buyers??
After recent events any bike for sale in Holland has the red warning lights flashing for me.
I can recall warning forum members on here or another 851/888 forum how easy it would be to build a replica and pass it off as the real deal some time back and at that time was told/harranged with the retort "Why would anyone bother, the parts would cost too much?"
Well I think what I warned about is coming home to roost, now that folk are prepared to pay BIG money for a late SP model.
I'd seen this situation coming after seeing what was happening with the roundcase/Greenframe 750SS's, there's a lot more of them about than the factory ever made!
I've seen C/cases with the OEM engine number machined out (Not off but a pocket was machined into the cases with a perfect plate with a new number fitted into the space) and you'd really have to know what you were looking at to tell the difference.
I was asked to rebuild one of these motors, but refused because I won't encourage the thieves/con artists.

Steve R

Yes, not real hard to build up a "bitsa bike" and pass it off. Even easier with the Corse bikes because lots of people don't care about engine numbers, chalk it up to "the engines in a corse bikes got changed all the time, so who cares if it is the original engine"

[hindsight]

After recent events any bike for sale in Holland has the red warning lights flashing for me.

Steve - given that I bought my SP from Holland (and I *think* from the same seller as this SPS), I'm intrigued.. to which "recent events" do you refer? (PM if you don't want this public)

[hindsight]

Thinking about this some more, one important thing to note is that the Dutch vehicle registration does not record engine numbers. Their documents record ONLY the VIN number. As such, they tend not to track or even care about preserving engine numbers like we do.

So with a damaged crankcase, where we'd probably want to repair whereever possible to preserve the original engine number, the Dutch are more likely to simply replace it (where it makes financial sense), regardless of whether the numbers match at the end.

I found this out when I bought my SP. At some point in the machines' history in the Netherlands, it had its' crankcases damaged. It then changed hands a couple of times, and it only came to light that it had an apparently odd engine number when I was preparing to export it back to Blighty.

[Mic 851 SP3]

Thinking about this some more, one important thing to note is that the Dutch vehicle registration does not record engine numbers. Their documents record ONLY the VIN number. As such, they tend not to track or even care about preserving engine numbers like we do.

So with a damaged crankcase, where we'd probably want to repair whereever possible to preserve the original engine number, the Dutch are more likely to simply replace it (where it makes financial sense), regardless of whether the numbers match at the end.

I found this out when I bought my SP. At some point in the machines' history in the Netherlands, it had its' crankcases damaged. It then changed hands a couple of times, and it only came to light that it had an apparently odd engine number when I was preparing to export it back to Blighty.

Goodmorning, I would like to make clear that 'The Dutch' do not exist, not even when Holland kicks England out of the upcoming World Championships in S-A. There are some 16,5 millions individuals that are unique rather than unified. To me the relation between 'The Dutch' and failing or swapped enginenumbers goes whoe! Before I bought my original 'Dutch'SP3(numbers verfied by the factory) I had some 6 international SP3 and 4's checked. Guess what? 4 of them where wrong and only two matched!
It is my believe that it happens everywhere and everyone should simply use the factory datbase if they would like to own a bike with matching numbers!

By the way I was at Motostretta last Thuesday and Marc, who seemed a nice guy to me, could or would not show me the numbers of SPS#002! I didn't ask any further because I never ask for something twice !

Ciao
Mic

[Nocaster]

Hello,

I believe and agree that one can find fraudulent bikes in any part of the world, not just Holland. Interesting that Marc would not show you the numbers of SPS #002! Be well.

[hindsight]

Hello,

I believe and agree that one can find fraudulent bikes in any part of the world, not just Holland. Interesting that Marc would not show you the numbers of SPS #002! Be well.

Part of the point of my earlier post (apart from the nationality gaffe ) was to point out that just because an engine number may not match, doesn't necessarily make the machine fradulent, or any less a bike, especially if it's being bought to be *used*.

Sometimes non-matching numbers (like in my own case) can be explained.

[Nocaster]

Agreed. However, when someone claims to be selling an all original unrestored bike and is charging huge dollars for it everything should be as it left the factory. Does Marc really expect people just take him at his word when you're about to pay 40,000 or 50,000 Euro's! In my current investigation of Marc Veld I have found out he has done jail time for being involved in a stolen Ducati's racket, charges later dropped for lack of evidence!! Be carefull of Marc Veld. Apparently nobody in Holland will have anything to do with him. Cheers.